Dragonfly help please

[Deano]

Hello all.
Once again I would appreciate any assistance in identifying the attached dragonfly photo.
Thanks in advance for any knowledgable replies.
Regards
Deano.

[twitcher]

Hi,
male common darter I think
Shaun.

[Deano]

Thanks Shaun.
I thought it may have been a darter, but I didn't know which type.
Regards
Deano

[m_galathea]

I'll leave knowledgeable replies to others, but from memory Common Darter has black and yellow stripes down its legs, and Ruddy Darter has all black legs like these.

Alexander

[twitcher]

Definitely not more knowledgeable,they just looked black and yellow
I need more sleep,darn those kids
Shaun

[Michael A]

100% common darter

[Deano]

Thank you all for your help!
Regards from Deano.

[eccles]

The photo doesn't clearly show that the legs are striped like a common darter so it could suggest a ruddy darter. The apparent yellow flash on the thorax may be a bit of lens flare rather than a mark on the dragonfly. I downloaded a copy and lightened the image and the black line above the frons looks as if it descends down the sides, also like the ruddy. I wouldn't bet on it but I'm leaning towards ruddy darter. Do you have another photo?

[Deano]

Thanks eccles for your info.
Yes, I do have another photo - hope this one confirms your suspicions.
Regards
Deano

[Padfield]

The characteristic yellow mark is still visible on the thorax. I've never seen this in any picture of a male sanguineum (ruddy) and it shows up exactly like this on every picture of male striolatum (common). The frons colour looks more striolatum in the first picture too.

I'd go for striolatum and assume the legs are simply not well enough lit.

Guy

[Keith Woonton]

Hi Deano,

One can seldom be one hundred percent positive with some of the more tricky identifications of what are visually very similar species but for my money I would say your pictures are of an immature male Sympetrum sanguineum - Ruddy Darter mainly because of the “wasted” apearance of the abdomin and although it is bearley decernabal in your photos, it dose apear to show the orange colouration at the very base of the wings which is absent in Sympetrum striolatum - Common Darter and to my eyes the legs apear to be plain black. The only way to be 100% positive is the vains and cell patern of the wings. But very few pictures would ever be of suficant clarity or just the right angle to make this posible.

See this link to a page discribing the Ruddy Darter on the British Dragonfly Society site, the bible of all things Dragonfly ( Horse-Stingers ) and Damselfly ( Devil's Darning Needles ) in the U K.

http://www.dragonflysoc.org.uk/sysan.html

Keith.

[Deano]

Thank you Guy and thank you Keith for all your information and website link, it is all very much appreciated. These insects certainly don't make their identity easily known do they!
Kind regards from Deano

[Keith Woonton]

Hi Deano,

I Thought I would post these two pictures of Sympetrum striolatum - Common Darter taken 14th September for you to compare against your photo. They clearly show the yellow stripes down the legs. As you can see they are a very distinct feature of this species. Also as can be seen they do not have such a tightly “wasted” abdomen as the one in your photos,

Keith.

[Padfield]

I'd put money on striolatum! I don't think there's any doubt. Thorax trumps legs in bad light, and that first picture (Deano's) shows a classic striolatum thorax.

Guy

[Neil Hulme]

Hi all,
I'm 100% with Guy on this - it's definitely a Common Darter. That said, I can see exactly why the photos are causing confusion - poor lighting of the legs. If you look CLOSELY the yellow stripes ARE visible! They can be seen most clearly on the right foreleg of the first photo (and less clearly at the top of the second), and on the second and third left legs of the second photo. As Guy points out, the thoracic features also give the game away.
Neil

[Keith Woonton]

Guy,

As I said,

One can seldom be one hundred percent positive with some of the more tricky identifications of what are visually very similar species

I think you are equally as likely to be correct with striolatum and your reasoning is also sound. It’s a shame there is not a picture of the dorsal surface, which would, I think make identification a lot more certain.
If my assessment is wrong, and it is only an opinion, I am, as always, more than happy to be corrected ( its how we learn.) And I will never get into an “I’m Right Your Wrong” type of argument over such matters which I have seen take place on this type of site.
I think Deano should be able now to make his own decision from the pointers we have all given him. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if we could both be right. In a perfect world maybe!

All the best, Keith.

[Keith Woonton]

OK Neil and Guy and All

The majority rules, It’s a Common.
Should I chose a pair of glasses, start reading all the literature again or chose my own blindfold before standing against a wall?

Keith.

[eccles]

The reason why I doubted common darter for the first pic was that the yellow thorax mark looked like lens flare. But the fact that it's present in the second photo seems to suggest that it's a common darter.
Here's a ruddy darter that I took last weekend. As you can see, the thorax lacks any yellowish markings, the black border around the frons runs down the edge, the abdomen is waisted (note, not wasted ), and the legs are black.

DSC06597.jpg (154.07 KiB) Viewed 1215 times

[Padfield]

Should I chose a pair of glasses, start reading all the literature again or chose my own blindfold before standing against a wall?

None of the above. Just wait for us to make a mistake, which we will, and then mock mercilessly!

G

[Neil Hulme]

Hi Keith,
No glasses needed! I think dragonflies can be VERY difficult to identify, especially from photographs that might obscure diagnostic features. When I first looked at the photos I thought the legs were black - you really have to squint before the yellow stripes appear. And the pale patch on the thorax (before confirmation in the second pic) could easily be lens flare. These debates are very useful, as the arguments 'for' and 'against' are probably a better way of helping others with future 'I.D.' than even the better guides with photos and extensive descriptive text.
Neil