Dragonfly help please
Dragonfly help please
Hello all.
Once again I would appreciate any assistance in identifying the attached dragonfly photo.
Thanks in advance for any knowledgable replies.
Regards
Deano.
Once again I would appreciate any assistance in identifying the attached dragonfly photo.
Thanks in advance for any knowledgable replies.
Regards
Deano.
- Attachments
-
- Mystery dragonfly
- 057.jpg (33.78 KiB) Viewed 1608 times
Re: Dragonfly help please
Hi,
male common darter I think
Shaun.
male common darter I think
Shaun.
Re: Dragonfly help please
Thanks Shaun.
I thought it may have been a darter, but I didn't know which type.
Regards
Deano
I thought it may have been a darter, but I didn't know which type.
Regards
Deano
- m_galathea
- Posts: 277
- Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:28 pm
- Location: West Sussex
- Contact:
Re: Dragonfly help please
I'll leave knowledgeable replies to others, but from memory Common Darter has black and yellow stripes down its legs, and Ruddy Darter has all black legs like these.
Alexander
Alexander
Re: Dragonfly help please
Definitely not more knowledgeable,they just looked black and yellow
I need more sleep,darn those kids
Shaun
![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
Shaun
Re: Dragonfly help please
100% common darter
Re: Dragonfly help please
Thank you all for your help!
Regards from Deano.
Regards from Deano.
Re: Dragonfly help please
The photo doesn't clearly show that the legs are striped like a common darter so it could suggest a ruddy darter. The apparent yellow flash on the thorax may be a bit of lens flare rather than a mark on the dragonfly. I downloaded a copy and lightened the image and the black line above the frons looks as if it descends down the sides, also like the ruddy. I wouldn't bet on it but I'm leaning towards ruddy darter. Do you have another photo?
Re: Dragonfly help please
Thanks eccles for your info.
Yes, I do have another photo - hope this one confirms your suspicions.
Regards
Deano![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
Yes, I do have another photo - hope this one confirms your suspicions.
Regards
Deano
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
- Attachments
-
- Ruddy darter perhaps.jpg (32.97 KiB) Viewed 1418 times
- Padfield
- Administrator
- Posts: 8182
- Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:19 pm
- Location: Leysin, Switzerland
- Contact:
Re: Dragonfly help please
The characteristic yellow mark is still visible on the thorax. I've never seen this in any picture of a male sanguineum (ruddy) and it shows up exactly like this on every picture of male striolatum (common). The frons colour looks more striolatum in the first picture too.
I'd go for striolatum and assume the legs are simply not well enough lit.
Guy
I'd go for striolatum and assume the legs are simply not well enough lit.
Guy
Guy's Butterflies: https://www.guypadfield.com
The Butterflies of Villars-Gryon : https://www.guypadfield.com/villarsgryonbook.html
The Butterflies of Villars-Gryon : https://www.guypadfield.com/villarsgryonbook.html
- Keith Woonton
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:12 pm
- Location: Chelsfield, Kent
Re: Dragonfly help please
Hi Deano,
One can seldom be one hundred percent positive with some of the more tricky identifications of what are visually very similar species but for my money I would say your pictures are of an immature male Sympetrum sanguineum - Ruddy Darter mainly because of the “wasted” apearance of the abdomin and although it is bearley decernabal in your photos, it dose apear to show the orange colouration at the very base of the wings which is absent in Sympetrum striolatum - Common Darter and to my eyes the legs apear to be plain black. The only way to be 100% positive is the vains and cell patern of the wings. But very few pictures would ever be of suficant clarity or just the right angle to make this posible.
See this link to a page discribing the Ruddy Darter on the British Dragonfly Society site, the bible of all things Dragonfly ( Horse-Stingers ) and Damselfly ( Devil's Darning Needles ) in the U K.
http://www.dragonflysoc.org.uk/sysan.html
Keith.
One can seldom be one hundred percent positive with some of the more tricky identifications of what are visually very similar species but for my money I would say your pictures are of an immature male Sympetrum sanguineum - Ruddy Darter mainly because of the “wasted” apearance of the abdomin and although it is bearley decernabal in your photos, it dose apear to show the orange colouration at the very base of the wings which is absent in Sympetrum striolatum - Common Darter and to my eyes the legs apear to be plain black. The only way to be 100% positive is the vains and cell patern of the wings. But very few pictures would ever be of suficant clarity or just the right angle to make this posible.
See this link to a page discribing the Ruddy Darter on the British Dragonfly Society site, the bible of all things Dragonfly ( Horse-Stingers ) and Damselfly ( Devil's Darning Needles ) in the U K.
http://www.dragonflysoc.org.uk/sysan.html
Keith.
Re: Dragonfly help please
Thank you Guy and thank you Keith for all your information and website link, it is all very much appreciated. These insects certainly don't make their identity easily known do they!
Kind regards from Deano
Kind regards from Deano
- Keith Woonton
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:12 pm
- Location: Chelsfield, Kent
Re: Dragonfly help please
Hi Deano,
I Thought I would post these two pictures of Sympetrum striolatum - Common Darter taken 14th September for you to compare against your photo. They clearly show the yellow stripes down the legs. As you can see they are a very distinct feature of this species. Also as can be seen they do not have such a tightly “wasted” abdomen as the one in your photos,
Keith.
I Thought I would post these two pictures of Sympetrum striolatum - Common Darter taken 14th September for you to compare against your photo. They clearly show the yellow stripes down the legs. As you can see they are a very distinct feature of this species. Also as can be seen they do not have such a tightly “wasted” abdomen as the one in your photos,
Keith.
- Attachments
-
- IMG_5060 - Sympetrum striolatum - Common Darter - 6 x 4.5.JPG (230.31 KiB) Viewed 1290 times
-
- IMG_5052 - Sympetrum striolatum - Common Darter - 6 x 4.5.JPG (208.46 KiB) Viewed 1290 times
- Padfield
- Administrator
- Posts: 8182
- Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:19 pm
- Location: Leysin, Switzerland
- Contact:
Re: Dragonfly help please
I'd put money on striolatum!
I don't think there's any doubt. Thorax trumps legs in bad light, and that first picture (Deano's) shows a classic striolatum thorax.
Guy
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
Guy
Guy's Butterflies: https://www.guypadfield.com
The Butterflies of Villars-Gryon : https://www.guypadfield.com/villarsgryonbook.html
The Butterflies of Villars-Gryon : https://www.guypadfield.com/villarsgryonbook.html
- Neil Hulme
- Posts: 3595
- Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:27 pm
Re: Dragonfly help please
Hi all,
I'm 100% with Guy on this - it's definitely a Common Darter. That said, I can see exactly why the photos are causing confusion - poor lighting of the legs. If you look CLOSELY the yellow stripes ARE visible! They can be seen most clearly on the right foreleg of the first photo (and less clearly at the top of the second), and on the second and third left legs of the second photo. As Guy points out, the thoracic features also give the game away.
Neil
I'm 100% with Guy on this - it's definitely a Common Darter. That said, I can see exactly why the photos are causing confusion - poor lighting of the legs. If you look CLOSELY the yellow stripes ARE visible! They can be seen most clearly on the right foreleg of the first photo (and less clearly at the top of the second), and on the second and third left legs of the second photo. As Guy points out, the thoracic features also give the game away.
Neil
- Keith Woonton
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:12 pm
- Location: Chelsfield, Kent
Re: Dragonfly help please
Guy,
As I said,
If my assessment is wrong, and it is only an opinion, I am, as always, more than happy to be corrected ( its how we learn.) And I will never get into an “I’m Right Your Wrong” type of argument over such matters which I have seen take place on this type of site.
I think Deano should be able now to make his own decision from the pointers we have all given him. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if we could both be right. In a perfect world maybe!
All the best, Keith.
As I said,
I think you are equally as likely to be correct with striolatum and your reasoning is also sound. It’s a shame there is not a picture of the dorsal surface, which would, I think make identification a lot more certain.Keith Woonton wrote:One can seldom be one hundred percent positive with some of the more tricky identifications of what are visually very similar species
If my assessment is wrong, and it is only an opinion, I am, as always, more than happy to be corrected ( its how we learn.) And I will never get into an “I’m Right Your Wrong” type of argument over such matters which I have seen take place on this type of site.
I think Deano should be able now to make his own decision from the pointers we have all given him. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if we could both be right. In a perfect world maybe!
All the best, Keith.
- Keith Woonton
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:12 pm
- Location: Chelsfield, Kent
Re: Dragonfly help please
OK Neil and Guy and All
The majority rules, It’s a Common.
Should I chose a pair of glasses, start reading all the literature again or chose my own blindfold before standing against a wall?
Keith.
The majority rules, It’s a Common.
Should I chose a pair of glasses, start reading all the literature again or chose my own blindfold before standing against a wall?
Keith.
Re: Dragonfly help please
The reason why I doubted common darter for the first pic was that the yellow thorax mark looked like lens flare. But the fact that it's present in the second photo seems to suggest that it's a common darter.
Here's a ruddy darter that I took last weekend. As you can see, the thorax lacks any yellowish markings, the black border around the frons runs down the edge, the abdomen is waisted (note, not wasted
), and the legs are black.
Here's a ruddy darter that I took last weekend. As you can see, the thorax lacks any yellowish markings, the black border around the frons runs down the edge, the abdomen is waisted (note, not wasted
![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
- Padfield
- Administrator
- Posts: 8182
- Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:19 pm
- Location: Leysin, Switzerland
- Contact:
Re: Dragonfly help please
None of the above. Just wait for us to make a mistake, which we will, and then mock mercilessly!Keith Woonton wrote:Should I chose a pair of glasses, start reading all the literature again or chose my own blindfold before standing against a wall?
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
G
Guy's Butterflies: https://www.guypadfield.com
The Butterflies of Villars-Gryon : https://www.guypadfield.com/villarsgryonbook.html
The Butterflies of Villars-Gryon : https://www.guypadfield.com/villarsgryonbook.html
- Neil Hulme
- Posts: 3595
- Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:27 pm
Re: Dragonfly help please
Hi Keith,
No glasses needed! I think dragonflies can be VERY difficult to identify, especially from photographs that might obscure diagnostic features. When I first looked at the photos I thought the legs were black - you really have to squint before the yellow stripes appear. And the pale patch on the thorax (before confirmation in the second pic) could easily be lens flare. These debates are very useful, as the arguments 'for' and 'against' are probably a better way of helping others with future 'I.D.' than even the better guides with photos and extensive descriptive text.
Neil
No glasses needed! I think dragonflies can be VERY difficult to identify, especially from photographs that might obscure diagnostic features. When I first looked at the photos I thought the legs were black - you really have to squint before the yellow stripes appear. And the pale patch on the thorax (before confirmation in the second pic) could easily be lens flare. These debates are very useful, as the arguments 'for' and 'against' are probably a better way of helping others with future 'I.D.' than even the better guides with photos and extensive descriptive text.
Neil