Some photos from France, ID help needed on some please

[Bill S]

Hi all

Here are a few photos from my recent hols in France, at a Gite in The Lot, near to Gourdon.

First up is Hummingbird Hawk Moth, there were many of these roosting in a vine on the west face of the Gite we had rented. They take forever to settle on a place to spend the night, it was fun watching them. The shutter speed in the picture was 1/1250 so with a wing speed like that it's no wonder they have to spend so much time taking nectar.

Scarce Swallowtails were around in good numbers too, most were missing parts from their tails, this one wasn't too shabby though.

I didn't see this at the Gite but on some walks we did that weren't that far away I found these on a couple of occasions. It was the first time I've seen this, but once you have seen the stunning underwing, there is no mistaking Queen of Spain Fritillary.

This one had me guessing until I got home and could look at http://www.butterfliesoffrance.com/ but I'm fairly confident this is Sooty Copper. A lovely little butterfly that I couldn't quite get the photo I wanted of, mainly because I only ever saw it in very strong sunlight.

Next up is Southern White Admiral. I first came across this species last year when I found a very aggressive (presumably male) individual guarding a track through a section of open woodland. This year I found many more, and all were very focussed on taking nectar, until they bumped into one another and then they would take to the wing and try to see one another off.

Now I could use a bit of help. I have a feeling that this is Heath Fritillary, can anyone confirm this please? Unfortunately I don't have an underwing shot. I found it in the grounds of the Gite in a large wild flower meadow. The whole area was a rich habitat for butterflies with much mixed woodland and plenty of uncultivated pastures and meadows.

This one I'm fairly confident is Rock Grayling but again if anyone can confirm that would be greatly appreciated. I must confess to not having seen a normal UK Grayling for about 30 years so I can be excused if this is Grayling.

This was another small fritillary we saw around the gite, I only got a fleeting photo opportunity but managed to get a partial underside shot. Again any suggestions for this one would be appreciated.

Finally, this one reminded me of Spotted Fritillary which I saw last year in the Provence, but it could be something else which is very worn out, again I don't have an underwing shot but if someone could confirm the identity it would be greatly appreciated.

I hope you enjoy the photos as much as I enjoyed taking them, and to anyone able to help with ID suggestions, many thanks in advance.

Cheers all

Bill

[Michaeljf]

Bill,
I won't help with the ID on the butterflies because others will have a more authoratative answer - but what lovely photos! We've been to Lot before and the Southern Admirals in particular are always quite difficult to get good photos of! Nice to see photos on the Lilac in such lovely bloom too. I'm slightly envious, but once again it shows also what a great country France is for Butterflies on a good weather day! What Camera were you using?
Michael

[JKT]

I'd say that the frit is B. dia and your suggestion off M. didyma is most likely correct. And I DO agree with the assessment of your pictures.

[David M]

Excellent photos, and I am SO going to put my French degree to good use next July by spending a week there doing nothing at all other than hunt butterflies*



*well, perhaps a bit of gourmet food, fine wine, and chateau touring apart...

[Padfield]

Hi Bill,

Agreed - the small frit is certainly dia (violet fritillary) and the spotted one didyma (spotted fritillary). The first frit I think is most likely M. athalia celadussa (heath fritillary). The only other possibility is M. deione (Provençal fritillary), but my own experience of that is limited to Switzerland and the Spanish Pyrenees. I'd definitely go for athalia, in the absence of an underside shot.

I think the grayling is H. semele (grayling) not alcyone (rock grayling). They're both rather variable but your butterfly looks beyond the range of variation of alcyone and is well within that of semele.

The copper is certainly a male L. tityrus (sooty copper).

And, as everyone has said, they are great pictures!!

Guy

[Bill S]

Thanks to everyone for their help with identification and for the comments on the photos

Bill

[Bill S]

Bill,
I won't help with the ID on the butterflies because others will have a more authoratative answer - but what lovely photos! We've been to Lot before and the Southern Admirals in particular are always quite difficult to get good photos of! Nice to see photos on the Lilac in such lovely bloom too. I'm slightly envious, but once again it shows also what a great country France is for Butterflies on a good weather day! What Camera were you using?
Michael

Thanks Michael, it was a Canon 40D, most are taken with a Sigma 150 macro with a 1.4x converter. The Sooty Copper, Queen of Spain, Heath Fritillary and Spotted Fritillary and last Southern White Admiral pics were taken with a Canon 70-200 F4 non IS lens also with the 1.4x converter.

Bill

[Lee Hurrell]

I agree Bill, cracking photos!

I had 2 weeks on la loire near Saumur in June and saw some wonderful butterflies.

Ah, to France next year....

Cheers

Lee

[Michaeljf]

Thanks Michael, it was a Canon 40D, most are taken with a Sigma 150 macro with a 1.4x converter. The Sooty Copper, Queen of Spain, Heath Fritillary and Spotted Fritillary and last Southern White Admiral pics were taken with a Canon 70-200 F4 non IS lens also with the 1.4x converter. Bill

Hi Bill,
Thanks for that, very interesting. You can't go wrong with a Canon DSLR and the photos show how good the Sigma Macro is with that body too...I'm almost tempted to get one (!!) as you can only get a longer macro lens of 180mm with the Canon macros and that one is pretty expensive . Regarding the Canon 70-200mm - when I was at Fermyn Wood in July photographing Purple Emperors, the longer lenses were being used a lot by other photographers, and it sort of surprised me as I've never been sure about getting good insect shots with a longer lens (i.e. not a dedicated macro) even with a converter or extension tubes. Your results speak for themselves in this case! The colours are beautiful too - you can't beat a bit of sunshine to help with colours...not that we're seeing much of that here at the moment!!
Michael

[Bill S]

Thanks Michael, it was a Canon 40D, most are taken with a Sigma 150 macro with a 1.4x converter. The Sooty Copper, Queen of Spain, Heath Fritillary and Spotted Fritillary and last Southern White Admiral pics were taken with a Canon 70-200 F4 non IS lens also with the 1.4x converter. Bill

Hi Bill,
Thanks for that, very interesting. You can't go wrong with a Canon DSLR and the photos show how good the Sigma Macro is with that body too...I'm almost tempted to get one (!!) as you can only get a longer macro lens of 180mm with the Canon macros and that one is pretty expensive . Regarding the Canon 70-200mm - when I was at Fermyn Wood in July photographing Purple Emperors, the longer lenses were being used a lot by other photographers, and it sort of surprised me as I've never been sure about getting good insect shots with a longer lens (i.e. not a dedicated macro) even with a converter or extension tubes. Your results speak for themselves in this case! The colours are beautiful too - you can't beat a bit of sunshine to help with colours...not that we're seeing much of that here at the moment!!
Michael

Thanks Michael. Yes the 70-200 was not mine, the Gite owner lent me theirs to try and I took it out the day I saw Sooty Copper and Queen of Spain. I ended up using it a bit more than I'd planned because of my accident with the 150. It has quite a long minimum focus distance so for smaller butterflies it would benefit from extension tubes. I'm not certain but I think that the minimum focus distance didn't rise when I put the 1.4 converter on so that is an option too for smaller species.

Bill

[Roger Gibbons]

Nice photos, Bill.

I can see why you thought the grayling was a Rock Grayling (Hipparchia alcyone) as the two unh discal lines are very strong and very typical of alcyone. Grayling (H. semele) is not common, but all the specimens I have seen in southern France do not look like this. The area around the unf ocellus is very “clean” and the dark area strong and well-contrasted, also more indicative of alcyone (or H. fagi) than semele. Also the unh texture is quite smooth, whereas semele is nearly always highly speckled (“irrorated”), to a greater extent than alcyone, I find. But the shape of the discal line, which can vary from highly pointed to quite round in semele, must surely confirm semele. Also rare in my experience to see semele nectaring.

The fritillary is, I would think, Heath (Mellicta athalia). It does not look quite red-orange enough for Provencal (M .dejone). I can’t really tell from the body shape and end of the abdomen whether it is a female, although I think it possibly is, but if it is a female, it is clearly athalia as dejone females have a marked colour contrast between the hindwing bands - easier to illustrate than describe (http://www.butterfliesoffrance.com/html ... mes_9May08_). According to Lafranchis, dejone occurs in France principally in the south-east, although there is a westerly outpost in Lot. Athalia is a very common and very variable butterfly in France (hard to believe) and dejone is quite local and uncommon, so on those grounds alone athalia is far more likely. As Guy says, an underside shot would resolve it – the dejone underside has a very red feel to it.

Lot and Dordogne is a great area for butterflies. About ten years ago we rented a gite there and came out one morning to find twelve Scarce Swallowtails nectaring on a the lavender shrub in the garden. Scarce?

Roger

[Bill S]

Nice photos, Bill.

I can see why you thought the grayling was a Rock Grayling (Hipparchia alcyone) as the two unh discal lines are very strong and very typical of alcyone. Grayling (H. semele) is not common, but all the specimens I have seen in southern France do not look like this. The area around the unf ocellus is very “clean” and the dark area strong and well-contrasted, also more indicative of alcyone (or H. fagi) than semele. Also the unh texture is quite smooth, whereas semele is nearly always highly speckled (“irrorated”), to a greater extent than alcyone, I find. But the shape of the discal line, which can vary from highly pointed to quite round in semele, must surely confirm semele. Also rare in my experience to see semele nectaring.

The fritillary is, I would think, Heath (Mellicta athalia). It does not look quite red-orange enough for Provencal (M .dejone). I can’t really tell from the body shape and end of the abdomen whether it is a female, although I think it possibly is, but if it is a female, it is clearly athalia as dejone females have a marked colour contrast between the hindwing bands - easier to illustrate than describe (http://www.butterfliesoffrance.com/html ... mes_9May08_). According to Lafranchis, dejone occurs in France principally in the south-east, although there is a westerly outpost in Lot. Athalia is a very common and very variable butterfly in France (hard to believe) and dejone is quite local and uncommon, so on those grounds alone athalia is far more likely. As Guy says, an underside shot would resolve it – the dejone underside has a very red feel to it.

Lot and Dordogne is a great area for butterflies. About ten years ago we rented a gite there and came out one morning to find twelve Scarce Swallowtails nectaring on a the lavender shrub in the garden. Scarce?

Roger

Thanks Roger, I don't have any underside shots of the suspect athalia but do have others which may help decide the gender so I will check those.

Sorry to have to ask this but do you have a link to a glossary of terminology - I don't know my unf from my unh!?

Bill

[Pete Eeles]

I don't know my unf from my unh!?

Underside forewing, and underside hindwing?

Cheers,

- Pete

[Bill S]

I don't know my unf from my unh!?

Underside forewing, and underside hindwing?

Cheers,

- Pete

D'oh!!!!!

Bill

[Padfield]

The semele is not 'typical' but this is a wonderfully variable butterfly, and as Roger says, the shape of the markings really leaves no option.

Here is a rather worn Swiss individual with essentially the same colour scheme and patterning:



I am fairly confident the athalia is male.

Guy

[Roger Gibbons]

To illustrate further Guy's point about the variability, this is my semele page, and all of these are from essentially the same region of south-east France:
http://www.butterfliesoffrance.com/html ... semele.htm

I have photos of some 15 individuals, and not one of them is nectaring.

[Padfield]

I have photos of some 15 individuals, and not one of them is nectaring.

But they do nectar avidly on certain plants. In Suffolk woods they gather on the bell heather in the rides, even in bad weather, and at Minsmere they join Vanessids and whites on the Buddleia.


(Suffolk, this August)

Guy

[Bill S]

Here's another of the same individual, I like how this butterfly still looks great even in harsh lighting conditions.

Cheers

Bill

[NickB]

...I'm almost tempted to get one (!!) as you can only get a longer macro lens of 180mm with the Canon macros and that one is pretty expensive .
Michael

A Nikonian speaks.....
...I think you may be forgetting the fact that Nikon do a 200mm macro......I got mine 2nd hand (non-VR) - and it was still expensive
...But it does make a big difference approaching those flighty frits ...and has a close-focus of about 1m so if you can get close, you can fill the frame.....
Canon is not the only alternative.....it is a good one tho'...
N

[Gruditch]

Stop it Nick, your starting to sound like a certain Mr Sony.

Regards Gruditch