Photos from Hungary

Post by **Pete Eeles** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:46 am

I had a fantastic week in Hungary last week and will post a report in the next week or so. We stayed at Farm Lator (see http://www.farmlator.hu/) which I thoroughly recommend (and I've already vowed to make a return visit!). The highlights for me were seeing species that are either extinct in, or rare migrants to, the UK, including Berger's Clouded Yellow, Camberwell Beauty, Large Blue, Large Copper, Large Tortoiseshell, Map, Pale Clouded Yellow, Queen of Spain Fritillary and Short-tailed Blue. It was also good to see many rarities in amazing numbers, including High Brown Fritillary, Heath Fritillary (possibly the commonest species seen), Purple Emperor (in 2s and 3s at a time, at several sites) and Swallowtail. Some photos below:

Map

Swallowtail

Queen of Spain Fritillary

Large Tortoiseshell

Short-tailed Blue

High Brown Fritillary

Berger's Clouded Yellow

Purple Emperor

Pale Clouded Yellow

Cheers,

- Pete

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:35 pm

Lovely shots Peter...very jealous of the Queen of Spain as I've lived in Spain fornearly two years now and not seen one

Martin.

Woundsinger · Post by **Woundsinger** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:43 pm

Welcome back Pete..
Glad you had such a good time..
Looking forward to reading the report...
Brilliant shots btw..

Andrew Cunningham · Post by **Andrew Cunningham** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:50 pm

Looking forward to the report keenly.

eccles · Post by **eccles** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:09 pm

Lovely shots Pete. I'm green hairstreaked with envy.

Wayne · Post by **Wayne** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:44 pm

Wow Pete, I love the Blue, well done with the Berger's Clouded Yellow photo too!

Good to hear you had a great time!

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:27 pm

Please forgive a newbie question but...what's the difference between a Clouded Yellow and a Berger's? They look identical in my book and photos.

Martin.

Post by **Pete Eeles** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:12 pm

Thanks for all the kind comments!

Now to answer Martin's question since, currently, identification of similar species is something that the UK Butterflies website has only partially-addressed (e.g. Adonis v Chalkhill Blue females).

Before my trip, I couldn't equivocally state that I knew the difference between a helice Clouded Yellow, a Berger's Clouded Yellow and a Pale Clouded Yellow. Since these species all sit with their wings shut, the identification problem gets exponentially worse! So ...

For "regular" Clouded Yellow, the distinction can be made on colour. Clouded Yellow are a much deeper orange colour. However, distinguishing helice Clouded Yellow from Berger's Clouded Yellow from Pale Clouded Yellow is much more difficult. In the field, this would appear to be best-achieved by considering geography and by netting individuals and looking at their upperside. This is what our guides did in Hungary and the distinguishing features described in "Butterflies of Europe" by Tristan Lafranchis applied.

helice Clouded Yellow are quite distinctive (even from their underside) given the black markings and wing shape. Berger's Clouded Yellow and Pale Clouded Yellow are much paler in colour and can be distinguished from each other by the colour and amount of orange on the hindwing dot.

We also had Eastern Pale Clouded Yellow, which has more black on the forewings.

So - not at all easy to identify from the underside only!

Cheers,

- Pete

Safi · Post by **Safi** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:53 pm

Dear UK Butterfliers,

Distinguishing Pale and Berger's Clouded Yellows is never easy on the field, sometimes not at all. The best what you can do is what Peter mentioned. You have to net the specimen and carefully examine the upperside.

here are some keys what is essential to remember during the determination:

Please, don't forget that these keys must be used in combination, single keys may result false determination. It is very helpful to have the other species in your other hand but I know it's impossible.

Berger's CY: MALES ONLY The ground colour is very bright yellow. The forewing basal area has black scales only at the inner margin but not the costal margin. The whole basal area of the hindwing is scattered by black scales.
The apex of the forewing is less arrow than the PCY (a bit round shaped). The center spot of the hindwing is bright orange. The black band on the hindwing margin is not prominent.

Pale CY: MALES ONLY The The ground colour is usually paler yellow. The black scales cover nearly the whole basal area of the forewing and hindwing too. The apex of the forewing is visibly arrow. The center spot of the hindwing is paler orange. The black band on the hindwing margin is broad.

The females usually have the same features but not eves as clearly as on the males

From the underside, it is impossible to distinguish the two species, apart from the shape of the forewing apex, but this key is usually not sufficient!!!

It's difficult isn't it?

Best wishes

Safi

Post by **Pete Eeles** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:05 am

Thanks Safi - excellent diagnostics!

And for the rest of you - Safi was one of the tour leaders (along with Rob de Jong of Farm Lator) during our Hungary visit.

Cheers,

- Pete

Post by **Pete Eeles** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:54 pm

A preliminary version of the report is now available, although is still going through a review process.

But I know that quite a few visitors are considering a trip to Hungary in 2007 and, if you want the information before it hits the UK Butterflies website in the next 2 weeks, then please email me at pete@ukbutterflies.co.uk for a copy.

Cheers,

- Pete

alex mclennan · Post by **alex mclennan** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:29 am

Hi all
I took up Pete's offer and had him e-mail a copy of his trip report to me. It is mouth watering! Superb! Farm Lator could be invaded next summer!
Alex

Oy · Post by Oy » Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:11 am

Looks like a great trip Pete!

Super photos! Are you going to do some photoshoppery to reduce & enhance them?

Post by **Pete Eeles** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:50 pm

Yes - the report contains a lot more photos that have been appropriately cropped etc.

Cheers,

- Pete

Post by **Pete Eeles** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:31 pm

The report is now available at

http://www.ukbutterflies.co.uk/reports_farmlator.php

Cheers,

- Pete

Post by **Padfield** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:44 pm

When flirting, female clouded yellows of all species readily hold their wings open flat and this is another opportunity to get confident ids. Here is a pair of Berger's. The very unmarked hindwings are characteristic, and on the forewing the white of the wings almost merges with the white apical spots. The outer margin of the wing is gently curved - much straighter in pale clouded yellow. The bright orange on the male's hindwing is visible here too.

.
Here is the same couple a moment later.

Guy