Fracking – Barton Moss Greater Manchester

[MikeOxon]

Mike

I'm sure it would be good if we could convert some of the World's deserts into solar farms

Or the Moon.
Can electricity be transmitted by methods other than cables? For example, by microwave [from the Moon]?

Yes. See, for example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_satellite.

Microwaves can be a very efficient means of power transmission and space-based solar panels work much better than terrestrial ones too. The moon is probably a bit too far away for good transmission and a very large area is needed for the receiving station, so we're probably back to places like the Sahara desert!

As with all these things, an awful lot of up-front money is needed and routine maintenance might be a bit difficult too.

Mike

[Jack Harrison]

Can electricity be transmitted by methods other than cables? For example, by microwave [from the Moon]?
Yes. See, for example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_satellite.

Seems that I re-invented the wheel but not exactly a very practical wheel.

Jack

[Jack Harrison]

I have gone off this idea of extracting minerals from the ground and using for fuel.

We have just received the bill for the oil-fired central heating to be serviced. There was nothing wrong before the service but the recommendation is to have it done annually. Things went from good to bad to worse with problem after problem that needed fixing. I am sure we paid over the odds - £630. That represents some 35 – 40% of our total annual heating bill.

Cheaper fuel from fracking wouldn’t make any difference to the servicing costs.

Jack

[Gibster]

So this thread seems to have wound-up and died a rather ignoble death. Jack, I trust you achieved your desired affect, whatever the heck that actually was? It's been interesting to see how 'out of kilter' some of you are. More interesting, to my mind at least, has been the total silence from other members that regularly frequent the forums.

I have an idea regards our energy consumption and ongoing drive to supply our needs. Why don't we all just pee into a pot and harness the thermal output? Once that has depleted we could pour it into the nearest river and maybe make use of a waterwheel, somehow? Needs fine-tuning but I think I'm onto something here, I really do!

EDIT - I've been a fool, I forgot to mention wind power! Naturally we can all pee into that as well.

[MikeOxon]

Why don't we all just pee into a pot and harness the thermal output?

Actually, recycling and composting are both useful sources of energy. Unfortunately, once again, no one wants the associated plant 'in their backyard' and, whenever a waste incinerator is proposed,there are protests!

I don't know if I'm 'out of kilter' but I take energy problems seriously. I think the word 'fracking' is unfortunate, since it has an unpleasant sound, but I don't think I'm alone in seeing it as something worth exploring.

Mike

[Jack Harrison]

MikeOxon

Actually, recycling and composting are both useful sources of energy. Unfortunately, once again, no one wants the associated plant 'in their backyard

Quite. The King's Lynn area of Norfolk has an on-going saga of a proposed "incinerator". Public Inquires, locked-in clauses that will cost to get out of - you name it. A government minister Eric Pickles is supposed to be making the final decision but apparently after many months, still hasn't got round to doing so.

You see signs STOP THE INCINERATOR as far as 20 miles from the proposed location. I saw no problems (I used to live in the area) with the project, but the "antis" were so abrasive that you dare not speak out in favour.

Apparently in another part of the country (can't recall where), a similar idea was called a "Recycler" rather than "Incinerator" and met with little opposition.

I agree with Mike: fracking is an ugly word and that in itself frightens people. PR doesn't seem to feature very highly with the energy companies who ought to appreciate the need to get the public "on side".

No energy source is ideal. If we want to continue the lifestyle we have today we must accept some less bad options.

As a postcript, I add a little note about the town of my birth, Great Yarmouth. Apparently before World War 2 there was a much hated industrial site called "The Destructor". When a stray Luftwaffe bomb destroyed The Destructor nobody was the least bit sorry.

Jack

[David M]

You see signs STOP THE INCINERATOR as far as 20 miles from the proposed location. I saw no problems (I used to live in the area) with the project, but the "antis" were so abrasive that you dare not speak out in favour.

Indeed. This "agree with me or I'll intimidate you" form of campaigning achieves nothing; in fact, it's counterproductive as the hitherto non-aligned will often err towards the opposing position as a result.

It'd be lovely if we could derive all our energy needs without despoiling the landscape one iota.

Sadly, we can't.

[Bill S]

Can anyone tell me why every single new home built doesn't come with fully operational solar panels? This is not the answer to all our energy needs,of course. With all the new houses going up everywhere, Britains energy needs will increase in future, in line with population increase.

Could anyone with these panels tell me how much benefit they actually see from them. Also, what would it be if not heavily subsidised by the rest of us? My impression is that full sun is not that common in this country (especially not at night, which is a lot of the time in Winter, when heat and light are most needed in our homes!) and that the sun is always rather low in the sky.

Sorry, a bit off the topic of this thread but I'm genuinely interested.

Mike

Hi Mike

I'm not sure what you want to know about panels. On a good day at this time of year the house is self sufficient from about 08:00 to 15:30. In the summer the span is a little bit longer but the amount we export is a lot larger. We have received approx. 12% yield pa of the purchase cost from the feed in tariff alone. If it were not for the FIT it would be far less attractive. In the summer we can produce a max of about 28 kWh per day and we will use approx 8 of those which means we're exporting the rest.

The attached image shows production from one day earlier this week. Green line is solar output, orange line is imported. Spikes are the kettle etc.

Bill

[MikeOxon]

The attached image shows production from one day earlier this week. Green line is solar output, orange line is imported. Spikes are the kettle etc.

Many thanks for sharing this information. It's interesting to see that the peak power output on a sunny Winter's day could just about power your kettle. I guess that the point is not what it does for your personal power consumption - especially since we all tend to need domestic electricity in the evening and at night, but the contribution it makes to industrial power use during the day. Of course, the feed in tariff would have to come down to the overall level of electricity prices for this to become economically viable for industry.

[Bill S]

The attached image shows production from one day earlier this week. Green line is solar output, orange line is imported. Spikes are the kettle etc.

Many thanks for sharing this information. It's interesting to see that the peak power output on a sunny Winter's day could just about power your kettle. I guess that the point is not what it does for your personal power consumption - especially since we all tend to need domestic electricity in the evening and at night, but the contribution it makes to industrial power use during the day. Of course, the feed in tariff would have to come down to the overall level of electricity prices for this to become economically viable for industry.

The kettle is a bit irrelevant - it has a very high but very short demand. More relevant is that our dishwasher and washing machine both heat the water and our tumble drier heats air and the power these items draws last much longer than a kettle boiling, so use far more kwh (area under the curve is what we get paid for and what we pay for). The power required by these domestic appliances fit comfortably within the peak power produced by our panels.

Bill

[MikeOxon]

The power required by these domestic appliances fit comfortably within the peak power produced by our panels.

Many thanks for your additional information, Bill - I take your point about the dishwasher etc and, I guess, it is not difficult to manage these so that they are 'on' when the solar energy is available.

Sorry for not responding sooner - I had missed following this thread for a while.

Mike

[Bill S]

Many thanks for your additional information, Bill - I take your point about the dishwasher etc and, I guess, it is not difficult to manage these so that they are 'on' when the solar energy is available.

Sorry for not responding sooner - I had missed following this thread for a while.

Mike

No worries Mike. I guess the bit I left out which might be important is that when it's sunny I can also use the surplus to charge my electric car. For sure I mostly use grid power for that because I work but on a good week I can charge at home Sunday, do 2 days commuting on Mon/Tues, ride my motorbike to work on Wedn while the car charges and then 2 more days commuting in the car. What I need now is an electric motorbike!

Bill

[MikeOxon]

...... I can also use the surplus to charge my electric car......

That's brilliant - a great idea.

Mike