Historical Somerset Plebejus argus.

[nomad]

Hi guys. all very interesting information. Mark - is there any mention of the Langport Plebejus argus in the Dale diaries?

Regards Peter.

[nomad]

Hi, I have seen the reference in the C.W. Dale book, but I am still a bit confused, if it was caught in Buckinghamshire why is Bedford placed at the side of this specimen and is it arion or alcon and has anybody viewed the recto.

Regards Peter.

[Pete Eeles]

... has anybody viewed the recto.

Yes - I don't have a photo but it's the same colour as a Large Blue without any spotting. Very much like a male Alcon Blue, in fact The first image here is close (from memory):

http://www.fleetingwonders.com/phengaris-alcon.php

Cheers,

- Pete

[nomad]

Thank you Peter. So a Alcon Blue it is. If it is not a genuine British example, the only answer that if Mr Jones did not capture this specimen it was supplied from elsewhere.

Regards Peter.

[Mark Colvin]

Hi Peter,

Re your question:

Mark - is there any mention of the Langport Plebejus argus in the Dale diaries?

There could be but its not something I have looked for ...

Dale’s daily journals and detailed books of records comprise an impressive 57 volumes. In addition, there are over 5000 letters from around 287 correspondents, excluding societies; all of which could contain a reference. Many sections of his diaries and communications make for some challenging reading. An example from 1842 below - and this is one of the easier pages ...

[nomad]

Thank you Mark- marvellous that the Dale diaries have been preserved. Perhaps James Dale collected the P. argus when he traveled to Langport to collect Maculinea arion, I believe according to Edward Newman's British Butterflies - on the 15th June 1834. Perhaps my best hope is that date in the diaries or a visit to the Taunton museum to view the historical butterfly collections.

Regards Peter.

[Mark Colvin]

Hi Peter,

Dale’s daily journals and books of records are accessible, by prior appointment, at the Library of the Oxford University Museum of Natural History (OUMNH). If you do make an appointment to visit, I suggest you request to see Item 5 from the Dale archive which comprises the Entomological Calendar of the late Rev. Charles Abbot for 1798-1803 and is then continued by James Charles Dale from 1808-1835. It may contain the information you are seeking. Its a shame I didn't know yesterday as I was researching in the museum the whole day and could of taken a look for you.

Good hunting.

Kind regards. Mark

http://www.oum.ox.ac.uk/collect/library.htm

[nomad]

Hi Mark. Many thanks for your help.

Regards Peter.

[Matsukaze]

Reading between the lines of the Victoria County History, the Silver-studded Blue seems to have been widespread but distinctly local in Somerset. It doesn't mention a location near Langport - presumably the specimens in question came from the Aller ridge (where the work on reintroducing the Large Blue is currently focused, and where the 1830s Large Blues were found) rather than the Poldens ridge proper (where the Large Blue currently flies), which could not reasonably be described as "Langport".

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report ... 117304#s16

Lycæna ægon, Schiff., is very local and uncommon in the county except near Bridgwater, where it has been taken freely by Mr. Cottam and Mr. Corder. It has been reported from near Bath, Clevedon, Sidcot (Corder), Taunton (Bidgood) and Weston-super-Mare

I assume aegon to be the synonym in use at the time.

If indeed it flew near Bath, then the area has supported all of the blue butterflies that have been resident in the UK at some time or another. Can any other area claim this?

I am not aware of any records from south or west Somerset, which is a little surprising considering the amount of heath. It existed at Maiden Down in the Blackdowns just on the Devon side of the border, but was eliminated when the M5 was built across the site.

[Matsukaze]

Has the hostplant for Alcon Blue ever occurred in the areas from which the butterfly was allegedly recorded?

[nomad]

Hi Matsukaze
Thank you for your help. All very interesting. John Quckett who originally found the Maculinea arion at Langport, mentioned in Edward Newmans British butterflies that this species was found at Langport in a " situation abounding in long grass and brambles ". The habitat in the 1830's seems to have had already invasive species, not suitable to arion, so its extinction in that locality was to be soon forthcoming. I do expect those very blue Dale females of Plebejus argus came from the same locality. I wonder if there are any more historical specimens of Plebejus argus - Maculinea arion in the Taunton Museum. It is interesting that you mention Aller as the Langport M. arion site, I did think of this, I know that limestone ridge as a locality for a few rare plants. Is there direct evidence that the Langport M.arion site was indeed the Aller ridge nearby. I do hope the Aller M. arion reintroduction is successful. Yes, it is interesting that the Victorians knew the Silver-studded Blue as Lycaena aegon.

Regards Peter.

[nomad]

Hi, I think that it would be highly unlikely that the Marsh Gentian - Gentiana Pneumonanthe would have been recorded in Buckinghamshire, but you would need to consult a flora of that county . It as been mentioned to me, that perhaps the early Bucks specimen of M. alcon was a stray from the coastal populations from the Dutch coast, but if this species got blown across or was able to have have made it here under its own steam, it would have probably been captured on the coast and not so many miles inland. I am very skeptical of a lot of the supposed early British records of doubtful U.K species. In this era, unfortunately fraud, so plagued the entomological community.

Regards Peter.

[Matsukaze]

Hi Matsukaze
Thank you for your help. All very interesting. John Quckett who originally found the Maculinea arion at Langport, mentioned in Edward Newmans British butterflies that this species was found at Langport in a " situation abounding in long grass and brambles ". The habitat in the 1830's seems to have had already invasive species, not suitable to arion, so its extinction in that locality was to be soon forthcoming. I do expect those very blue Dale females of Plebejus argus came from the same locality. I wonder if there are any more historical specimens of Plebejus argus - Maculinea arion in the Taunton Museum. It is interesting that you mention Aller as the Langport M. arion site, I did think of this, I know that limestone ridge as a locality for a few rare plants. Is there direct evidence that the Langport M.arion site was indeed the Aller ridge nearby. I do hope the Aller M. arion reintroduction is successful. Yes, it is interesting that the Victorians knew the Silver-studded Blue as Lycaena aegon.

Regards Peter.

Hi Peter,

Although Collard Hill is not exactly "abounding in long grass and brambles" the Large Blue adults do head downslope there to scrubby patches, I expect partly for shelter and partly because the scrub provides suitable perching points from which the males intercept females. The same happens with Small Blues at Stoke Camp - the adults shelter in an area of long grass not disturbed by the prevailing winds, but the breeding grounds are elsewhere.

As for the Aller ridge being the source for the Langport Large Blues, it is referenced in the material relating to the conservation work currently going on in the area. I am not aware of the original source of the information, but those behind the project are much better informed of the history of the Large Blue in the area than I am!

[nomad]

Hi All. I have been sent a list of historical specimens of Plebejus argus in the Taunton museum. There are no others from Langport, but this butterfly seems to have occurred in a number of colonies in this area. Most of the specimens are from Taunton [15km from Langport] and a few from Shapwick [ 10km from Langport], an interesting locality on Sedgemoor. There was also a good recorded colony at Bridgewater [ 13km from Langport ]. The next step will be to visit the Taunton museum to see how the butterflies from the Taunton [ Sandstone] and Sharpwick localities compare with the unusual blue females that Dale found at Langport. I find geographical variation in the British butterflies, very interesting. It is a great pity that the notable subspecies of Plebejus argus masseyi and cretaceus were lost to Britain. I will not be able to view the butterfly collections before the end of May, as there is a refit of the museum in progress.

Regards Peter.

[Pete Eeles]

Long-term UKB members will remember that former team member, Piers, has a wealth of knowledge on the subspecies and forms of the British butterflies. I'm pleased to say that he's read this thread and had the following valuable observations:

While I admit that the illustrated specimens are unusual in the amount of blue-scaling, it is probably worth considering that there's no evidence to suggest that the examples figured in the post are typical of those found in the colony from which they were collected.

Give me a net, and a couple of free days, and I could go to almost any argus colony in the country (with the possible exception of those in The New Forest) and return with a short series of exceptional specimens such as those in the photograph; however, these would in no way be representative of the 'typical' females to be found within the population. It could easily be the case that I would have to sort through hundreds, or even thousands of specimens in order to secure a series of 'blue females', although some populations do produce these forms with predictable regularity.

It's also worth remembering that butterfly collectors tended to focus upon the exceptional, rather than the mundane, and collecting a specimens that defied the norm was often the overriding consideration when venturing into the field.

Having said all that, there is a long-perpetuated myth in literature that 'blue females' are unusual in this species, and that they are (were) restricted in the main to the extinct 'subspecies' masseyi and the extant subspecies caernensis. In truth, 'blue females' are a regular occurrence in pretty much every population in the British Isles (with the exception of the New Forest and Dorset heaths, which probably define the English argus subspecies). I would go so far as to say that in certain areas in the east of England, in Cornwall, and in Wales; 'blue females' could truthfully be described as 'frequent' within populations.

Cheers,

- Pete

[Pete Eeles]

Also from Piers ...

Here's a little more on the historic distribution of the butterfly in Somerset:

A.H. Turner (1955) reported that the species as being "very local and uncommon...probably occurs near the south-western boundaries, as it is locally common just across in Devonshire".
Turner cites the VCH (1906) for the following localities: Bridgewater, Bath, Clevedon, Taunton, Weston-super-Mare.
A.R. Haywar (late of Misterton, Somerset) in his extensive records noted Shapwick as a locality (records bequeathed to the Somerset Archaeological & Natural History Society in 1939).
Hudd (1884) quoted Durdham Down and Stapleton (Bristol), Weston-super-Mare; as well as "fairly common at one locality at Clevedon" (ref. J. Jackson c. 1900).
A.M. Emmet (1950) reported the species from Combe Dingle (Bristol).
Newman (1874) includes Brockley as a locality and cites Hudd as a source. Interestingly, there were still rumours of the species in this area as late as the 1980s.
G.B. Coney of Batcombe, Somerset, recorded Ashcott as a locality. The impressive Coney collection is now housed at the Bristol City Museum and Art Gallery - this could merit further investigation as there may well be some interesting voucher specimens.

As the thread has deviated to include M. arion, it's worth noting that arion was present near Langport until the late 1950s.

Cheers,

- Pete

[Padfield]

Having said all that, there is a long-perpetuated myth in literature that 'blue females' are unusual in this species, and that they are (were) restricted in the main to the extinct 'subspecies' masseyi and the extant subspecies caernensis. In truth, 'blue females' are a regular occurrence in pretty much every population in the British Isles (with the exception of the New Forest and Dorset heaths, which probably define the English argus subspecies). I would go so far as to say that in certain areas in the east of England, in Cornwall, and in Wales; 'blue females' could truthfully be described as 'frequent' within populations.

That's an interesting thesis. I propose UK Butterflies members test it out this summer. Let's see if between us we can produce some photos of blue females from every colony in the British Isles (except, perhaps, the New Forest and Dorset heaths). I have to say, I never saw any when I lived in Suffolk but nor did I have the opportunity to examine thousands of individuals.

In my part of Switzerland, brown females are certainly the norm, but observations might be skewed by the fact any seriously blue female would probably be passed over as idas - a possibility that does not exist in the UK.

I think I will open a 'Blue Female' post when the SSB season opens to remind people to start looking!

Together we can bust (or confirm) this myth!

Guy

[nomad]

Hi Guys
thank you for your help. Piers amazing insight into Plebejus argus was most helpful. I do know that the Cornwall sand dune populations produce blue females and so do those sometimes from Pree's Heath in Shropshire and others in Wales. I have seen Plebejus argus on a number of lowland heaths and all of the females seem to be brown. I have yet to visit the limestone quarries of Portland, but females from there do not seem to be very blue. Guy suggestion is great, and if any of you are visiting Plebejus argus argus colonies, please post here examples of any blue females that you find, especially those that occur on lowland acid heaths as most of those images from that habitat on the gallery of this species seem to be of brown females. I shall certainly be visiting a number of colonies this summer including those on Portland. I wonder who can be the first to find a blue lowland heath female. I amazed to find that M. arion survived near Langport until the 1950's, I was told that it went extinct there in the 19th century. Much to learn in this absorbing hobby.

Best Wishes Peter.

[Reverdin]

Does this count?... P. argus female, Vercors, France 2012

It's not as Blue as caernensis, but...

I have 16 different argus individuals imaged in overseas shots, 7 of which are female and only the above one has any blue. I think Piers has a very strong point regarding "collector bias".