Shameful article by Ian Liddell-Grainger

[Michaeljf]

I know some of you may not be a fan, but I've emailed Mike Dilger (conservationist that regularly appears on 'The One Show') to see if he wants to do an article on this. At least it might give Jenny Plackett a chance to put her view across (and ours, might I venture...)

Michael

[Jack Harrison]

Michael

...emailed Mike Dilger

What other "personalities" might want to take this up? Does anyone have contacts with Spring/Autumn Watch or Countryfile for example? Has the RSPB or Natural England become involved?

The main focus could perhaps be on how ill-informed/out-of-touch the Right Dishonourable Gentleman really is. Not-fit-for-Purpose comes to mind.

A strange thought comes to mind. Is it just possible that L-G wasn't actually behind the article/blog and he had been hijacked by someone with a grudge?

Jack

[Lee Hurrell]

We should inform the local and/or national press - let's name and shame!

Lee

[Pawpawsaurus]

If I were on Twitter I'd certainly let Chris Packham know about it. (His website gives contact details only for his management company, so messages sent there might not reach him for a while, if at all.)

He may already have been deluged with tweets, texts and emails, but one more wouldn't hurt.

Paul

[Jack Harrison]

How about a collection for Piddell-Grunger’s forthcoming retirement? I don’t know how many members there are in ukb (say 2000?) but if everyone donated one penny then we could give P-G the princely sum of £20 as a mark of our appreciation. It would be along the same lines as leaving a 10 pence tip in a restaurant where the service and food has been poor; this gets the message across far better than leaving nothing at all (you might just have forgotten) —10 pence under a plate means you had thought about it and showed what you thought!

Jack

[David M]

I've had another look at Piddell-hyphen-Grunger's blog:

http://www.liddellgrainger.org.uk/local ... ERPIE.html

I really cannot believe what He (the capital H is deliberate) has written.

We are all with you Jenny Plackett on this one. But I have a sneaking suspicion that Piddell-hyphen-Grunger will soon realise that he has made a complete ass of himself and the reaction —if we can get it out into the public domain — will be disastrous for Him and could perversely be good for butterflies in the longer term.

That's been updated since yesterday and if he has printed the private contents of a letter someone has sent to him then that represents a severe breach of social etiquette and is beneath contempt.

Didn't Liam Fox get into some bother last year after dumping constituents' letters in a public waste bin to be discovered by passers by? At least he did not deliberately breach trust.

I'd also like to know why the location of Butterfly Conservation's HQ in Dorset is considered relevant. This is a national organisation and could easily have been based elsewhere. He seems to think that Exmoor issues should be exempt from scrutiny if a body has its base in Dorset. Well, I've news for him, the UK Parliament is based at Westminster, even further away from Exmoor, so using his logic he has no right to be interfering in Exmoor affairs himself.

Tosser.

[Pete Eeles]

Guy is knee-deep in work matters, but did kindly send me his thoughts, which he allowed me to post:

"What we mustn't do is descend to his level. Any response should be measured, entirely without malice or vilification, rational, and directed only at the issues, not the man.

Does he actually pose a threat to funding for this project? If not, then there's nothing to be done. If he does, then the focus should be on remedying whatever damage he might do.

It is of paramount importance to me that we attack only the issues and do not resort to personal abuse."

Cheers,

- Pete

[Jack Harrison]

Guy via Pete

...It is of paramount importance to me that we attack only the issues and do not resort to personal abuse.

I don't think that MP adopted the same code of conduct in his personal attack on Jenny.

Sorry to disagree but we have to fight fire with fire:

Shakespeare: When we 'fight fire with fire' we are likely to employ more extreme methods than we would normally do. King John, 1595

Meaning: Respond to an attack by using a similar method as one's attacker.

Jack

[johnv]

If I were on Twitter I'd certainly let Chris Packham know about it. (His website gives contact details only for his management company, so messages sent there might not reach him for a while, if at all.)

It would be a good idea if someone could contact Chris

[Lee Hurrell]

That's not the only method of attack though...and we have moved on a bit from 1595...

Lee

[David M]

If this were about issues only, then I'd be inclined to agree with the suggestion that we ourselves merely concentrate on issues. However, this MP is indulging in character assassination of a person with no wish to be in the public eye. That marks him out as a bully intent on humiliating those with whom he disagrees in order to further his own agenda.

If your boss printed private emails you'd sent to him for all others to see whilst lampooning and ridiculing you I suspect your response would not be to merely concentrate on the issues.

Liddell-Grainger is entitled to his opinions, but as an elected member of parliament he ought to have more respect towards ordinary citizens who, after all, are responsible for the lifestyle and kudos he enjoys as a result of his status.

His behaviour is quite extraordinary. His are the types of puerile cheapshots that one would expect to read about on football fans' forums, not on an MP's blog.

It reveals a great deal about his character, and for me, his character is that of an idiot.

[Padfield]

Back from school!

Yes, Pete did ask my opinion on how I felt UK Butterflies should respond to this, as I hadn't yet contributed to the thread. He correctly represented my position, but I appreciate that others differ on this. I hold that bad arguments are best opposed with good arguments, not more bad arguments - and ad hominem attacks are generally bad arguments. LG has raised the profile of the issue of butterfly conservation on Exmoor and it is obviously important that we (as an organisation) correct the wrong impressions he gives without our points being buried in angry invective. How individuals respond personally is up to them and I have nothing to say on that!

I found Jenny Plackett's response appropriate and dignified and she certainly comes out in a far better light than he does. Insofar as he misrepresents her, I entirely agree we should correctly represent her and others he tars with the same imaginary brush. I simply don't feel our official response should be to play his rather silly game.

I hope that doesn't sound all holier-than-thou - it's not intended to.

Guy

[MikeOxon]

Liddell-Grainger is entitled to his opinions, but as an elected member of parliament he ought to have more respect towards ordinary citizens who, after all, are responsible for the lifestyle and kudos he enjoys as a result of his status.

I think David has put the matter very succinctly here. Are his bosses in the Conservative Party happy with the image of the Party which he is creating through his somewhat puerile blog? Do they feel that he has overstepped the mark as an MP by denigrating a member of the public, who is clearly dedicated to her responsible job?

Others have been severely reprimanded for similar misdemeanors - shouldn't the same rules be applied to him?

Mike

[Lee Hurrell]

Liddell-Grainger is entitled to his opinions, but as an elected member of parliament he ought to have more respect towards ordinary citizens who, after all, are responsible for the lifestyle and kudos he enjoys as a result of his status.

I think David has put the matter very succinctly here. Are his bosses in the Conservative Party happy with the image of the Party which he is creating through his somewhat puerile blog? Do they feel that he has overstepped the mark as an MP by denigrating a member of the public, who is clearly dedicated to her responsible job?

Others have been severely reprimanded for similar misdemeanors - shouldn't the same rules be applied to him?

Mike

I agree - and would also like to hear what his boss has to say...

David Cameron MP
10 Downing Street
London
SW1A 2AA

14th February 2012

Dear Mr Cameron

Re: Ian Liddell-Grainger MP

I feel I must write to bring to your attention the behaviour of the Conservative MP, Mr Ian Liddell-Grainger, MP for Bridgwater and West Somerset.

He writes in the attached article from the ‘This is Devon’ website, originally published in The Western Morning News (10th February), his views on conservation on Exmoor and Dartmoor. He does enjoy, of course, the same freedom of speech rights as the rest of us.

What I object to and find scandalous are the personal attacks on the conservation officer mentioned in the article, as shown on the attached print out from Mr Liddell-Grainger’s own website. This surely goes beyond the airing of views and borders on harassment, particularly as it contains a portrait and contact details.

This sort of behaviour is more suited to a playground and not what I would expect from an elected member of parliament.

The natural environment and wildlife in general, but particularly butterflies, are extremely important to me, as I’m sure it and they must be to many of Mr Ian Liddell-Grainger’s constituents and other Conservative supporters. I’m afraid that this sort of thing will only alienate potential and existing voters, particularly as Mr Liddell-Grainger’s views and behaviour are already causing anger and resentment in my colleagues in conservation organisation circles.

I include a reply from Dr Martin Warren, Chief Executive of Butterfly Conservation to Mr Liddell-Grainger’s article:

Dear Sir

I was deeply saddened to see the recent column by Mr Liddell-Grainger MP on our efforts to conserve the special butterflies of Dartmoor and Exmoor.

Butterflies are one of the most threatened wildlife groups with over three-quarters of our species in decline and over 40% threatened with extinction. Our President Sir David Attenborough describes them as canaries in the coalmine, warning us of dangers that lie ahead. He also says that by conserving them we help create a healthy environment for us all to live in.

Exmoor and Dartmoor are the last refuges of butterflies that have disappeared from the rest of our countryside, including the High Brown Fritillary, Marsh Fritillary and Heath Fritillary.

Our Two Moors project is working with local people to save these and other wildlife. As Project Officer, Jenny Plackett, has been warmly welcomed by farmers on both moors and has helped many of them to enter into Environmental Stewardship schemes to manage their land sustainably.

This supports the rural economy as well as saving rare butterflies and the rich wildlife of the moors. Her work has been widely supported by local groups, including students from Minehead Middle School and the Duchy College. Such work is a good use of public funds, improving the local environment for the enjoyment of all and helping to deliver the Government’s internationally agreed targets to halt the loss of biodiversity.

Jenny is one of many dedicated conservationists who works very hard on annual contracts to help improve our environment. To attack her personally seems very unfair. Who breaks a butterfly upon a wheel?

Yours sincerely

Dr Martin Warren
Chief Executive
Butterfly Conservation

I think at the very least, Mr Liddell-Grainger owes Jenny Plackett an apology.

I very much look forward to hearing from you on this matter.

Yours sincerely

Lee Hurrell

Enc.

CC – Mr Ian Liddell-Grainger MP, Sir John Stanley MP, Dr Martin Warren

[Padfield]

Well done, Lee. I look forward to learning what response your letter elicits.

Guy

[m_galathea]

Regardless of this MP's views, I suspect he has broken the rules by publishing a letter that was sent to him by a constituent complete with contact details. Is the ICO the correct group to advise in this instance?

Alex

http://www.ico.gov.uk/for_organisations ... tical.aspx

[Michaeljf]

Regardless of this MP's views, I suspect he has broken the rules by publishing a letter that was sent to him by a constituent complete with contact details. Is the ICO the correct group to advise in this instance? Alex

Publishing her details wouldn't be a problem, I suspect, because they are available already on the internet - see the excellent and constructive blog below on Heath Fritillaries.

http://heartofexmoor.wordpress.com/2011 ... ry-survey/

However, the publishing of a private letter would be something different entirely, as would be using Jenny's picture for purportedly 'humorous' ends without her permission.

Michael

[Jack Harrison]

Regardless of this MP's views, I suspect he has broken the rules by publishing a letter that was sent to him by a constituent complete with contact details.

Maybe I should start a new topic as there is no obvious connection with this one(!)

I believe there is some software that won't allow a computer to function without passing the appropriate test, the equivalent of one of these devices:

Smart Start Ignition Interlock
• The driver is required to take and pass a test that screens for deep-lung breath alcohol
• Without a successful pass, the interlock device disables the car’s ignition, rendering the vehicle inoperable

Anyone have details?

Jack

[johnv]

I see he has had another go today at BC and conservationists in general.
http://www.liddellgrainger.org.uk/ian/M ... G2012.html

[Lee Hurrell]

I see he has had another go today at BC and conservationists in general.
http://www.liddellgrainger.org.uk/ian/M ... G2012.html

And he is STILL publishing private contact details...