Wings Open; Wings Closed...

Bryan H · Post by **Bryan H** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:02 pm

How is it that some Blues (for example) feel 'safe', being conspicuously coloured and with no eyespots, to bask and nectar with wings held open, whilst other species (some Browns, for example) are clearly too 'nervous' to do the same and sport 'warning' eyespots on the underwing for even more 'protection'?

Accidents of evolution and survival strategies, no doubt. But the former group have survived just the same. Can anyone shed some light on this?

Bryan

Dave McCormick · Post by **Dave McCormick** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:19 pm

Well, with the blues, they only really open wings to either mate or sun themselves. Their darker underside and small appearence mainly can concel them well. They probably are a target, but I have rarely seen that.

As for browsn, they can concel themselves pritty well and dark eyespots are like animal eyes and in a good place you may only see the eye and this will scare any predator off.

I am no expert, but this is my idea.

Post by **Padfield** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:52 pm

I think the full answer to your question, Bryan, would be a big fat book (which probably exists), entitled 'Butterfly strategies for avoiding predation', or something similar!! There are countless such strategies, varying from tasting disgusting (monarchs & co.), through remarkable cryptic colouration (leaf butterflies, graylings &c.), through dastardly evasive flight paths (it's difficult to follow a grizzled skipper with the eye, let alone snap it up for dinner), through predator mimicry (peacocks) to decoy techniques (the 'eyes' of browns serve to direct a predator's attention away from its body to the relatively dispensable outer parts of its wings) and many more.

I could speculate about the particular examples you give, but it would be no more than speculation. Browns are often cumbersome, slow fliers, relatively easy to pick up on the wing and often easy to follow to rest. For such insects, decoy eye spots might be a solid contingency plan. Not all browns are lazy fliers, however. Graylings are very agile and can swoop and change direction quickly. They disappear completely on landing and it is difficult to see where they land - cryptic colours have obviously helped them a lot. Blues are small and flash their colours in flight; they might be quite confusing to follow if you are a hungry passerine. They are very sensitive to the approach of a predator and take to the wing readily (watch a cloud of blues rise from puddling and imagine you are a bird trying to secure just one of them...). They also often hang around in meadows, where there are few perches for birds to sit on and pounce from. When they go to roost they are far less visible, their jewelled undersides breaking up their outline.

In short, with all the wonderful variety of butterfly colouration and behaviour, I suspect there are almost as many different answers to your question as there are species. As you say, however, all have stood the test of time (much longer than we have been around) and clearly do have successful strategies for avoiding being gobbled up!!

Guy

Post by **Padfield** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:57 pm

You are right, though, Bryan - some butterflies do show a brazen disregard for their own safety. This is a purple-shot copper:

Guy

Bryan H · Post by **Bryan H** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:19 pm

Thank you both for your replies.

Guy, I don't think we need the big, fat book!

I would hardly call your response 'speculation'; more like extremely knowledgeable and well reasoned! You've demonstrated that the answers to these questions can often be simpler than we (or myself in particular

) might imagine.

You might have added that it's not only the approach of predators that Blues are extremely sensitive to, but also that of clumsy photographers!

This would be the best place to ask; has anyone ever seen a bird take a butterfly? I suppose that whilst we're watching the butterflies, the birds are watching us, but I wonder if there is any remotely-taken footage of such an event?

Thanks once again for your considered reply.

Bryan

P.S. Thanks for the photo of the Purple-shot Copper. 'Naughty' but nice

eccles · Post by **eccles** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:03 pm

Last Saturday, I visited Ashton Court Meadow near Bristol where I saw my first dark green fritillary of the year. These are very fast and agile flyers. But this one wasn't fast or agile enough to avoid being knocked out of the sky by an emperor dragonfly.
Today I was at Collard Hill, looking at large blues. One had settled on the ground near to a spider whose web threads were close enough for the spider to detect it. It flew off just before the spider struck. I suspect it was the noise of my camera shutter that saved it, but it could have been the spider's rapid movement.
One was lucky, the other was not.

Dave McCormick · Post by **Dave McCormick** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:33 am

I was watching some common blue the other day and it was being chased by two blue damselflies. I don't know what happened, but the common blue (male) landed and closed its wings and damsels stopped persuing and flew off.

Maybe its because both damsels where blue and common blue was blue too? The damsels flew off as I pressed camera shutter.

As for butterflies, they have poor image resolution so they cannot see very well. They normally (to my knowladge) use sent to detect things such as mates or whatever. So unless they see a fast moving bluring object or loud noise comming at them, they probably wont move too far.

As for a bird? My dad told me of someting really odd a good few years ago...

He was driving down road and cars came to a stand still. There was a wagtail bird chasing a large white butterfly and it did this up and down the road for about 15mins or so before it gave up. Then cars started moving again.

Thanks again Guy for advice. We probably don't need book with all the advice here.

eccles · Post by **eccles** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:53 pm

they have poor image resolution so they cannot see very well.

This isn't strictly correct. To a varying degree, all insects have poor image resolution, when compared with vertebrates for instance, but resolution isn't everything. Many are highly tuned to respond to movement and to colour. The latter is why many butterflies are so brightly coloured. Wear a white shirt in Spring and see how many brimstone males check you out. Some lepidopterae are sensitive to high frequency sounds, particularly moths. I would guess this is a survival strategy against bats' echo location. My camera's autofocus system has a sufficiently high pitched sound to alert moths, even day flying ones, suggesting that their evolutionary ancestors were night flyers.
You're right about the use of smell but I don't know that butterflies use scent to locate each other, unlike some moths which are legendary. Male butterflies often have scent scales which can be seen as dark patches on the upper wings, but it is usually the male that seeks out the female, not the other way around. Males so equipped will fly around the female, dusting her antennae with scent scales in order to coax her to mate.
Butterflies also taste, with their feet. I first noticed this when watching female green veined whites, alighting on various types of vegetation before judging which ones 'tasted' right in order to lay eggs.

Dave McCormick · Post by **Dave McCormick** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:31 pm

I know about sound. one of the best moths to see that uses scent to detect a female is the emperor moth. Can detect a female upt to 6 miles away with its feathery antennae.

As for their eyesight, if they see someting that looks in similar colour to they are, they would go for it sometimes. But it would be the scent of that object that would either make them feed from it, fly away or stay with it.

Bryan H · Post by **Bryan H** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:10 pm

eccles wrote:Last Saturday, I visited Ashton Court Meadow near Bristol where I saw my first dark green fritillary of the year. These are very fast and agile flyers. But this one wasn't fast or agile enough to avoid being knocked out of the sky by an emperor dragonfly.
Today I was at Collard Hill, looking at large blues. One had settled on the ground near to a spider whose web threads were close enough for the spider to detect it. It flew off just before the spider struck. I suspect it was the noise of my camera shutter that saved it, but it could have been the spider's rapid movement.
One was lucky, the other was not.

Blimey, Eccles! I bet the butterflies get nervous when you show up

Did you see what became of the Frit?

Bryan

Bryan H · Post by **Bryan H** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:14 pm

Dave McCormick wrote:
As for a bird? My dad told me of someting really odd a good few years ago...

He was driving down road and cars came to a stand still. There was a wagtail bird chasing a large white butterfly and it did this up and down the road for about 15mins or so before it gave up. Then cars started moving again.

That's a charming tale, Dave! I can just imagine the traffic stopping for such a spectacle these days!

Bryan

Rogerdodge · Post by **Rogerdodge** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:04 am

This would be the best place to ask; has anyone ever seen a bird take a butterfly?

Back in the early '70s, I took my first ever trip abroad specifically for wildlife watching.
Southern and central Portugal.
Imagine my excitement to watch my first ever Scarce Swallowtail taken by my first ever Great Grey Shrike!
Roger Harding

Post by **Padfield** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:57 am

Perhaps birds are not the greatest of butterflies' problems.

This is a female great sooty satyr (yes, they have a lot of extra spots in Switzerland) being attacked by a Martian:

And this one is a false ilex hairstreak I was videoing being whisked away by a passing wasp. Neither of us saw that coming:

Guy

Dave McCormick · Post by **Dave McCormick** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:06 am

Great shots guy. Intreasting to see, but I did see around aweek or so, I was cahsing a silver-ground carpet moth for a pic and mistakenly chased into the path of a swallow, which flew past it once, I tried to grab it to move it, but gobble, it was gone! Still there are loads around my area which is a good thing.

eccles · Post by **eccles** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:44 pm

Did you see what became of the Frit?

Yep:

Bryan H · Post by **Bryan H** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:29 am

Ouch!

(Serves me right for asking!)

Dramatic photography, eccles!

Bryan

Dave McCormick · Post by **Dave McCormick** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:40 am

Ooch! Excellent shot!

Cotswold Cockney · Post by **Cotswold Cockney** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 6:18 pm

eccles wrote:
Did you see what became of the Frit?
Yep:

An absolutely stunning image! Well done!

Major Bludnock ~ and there was me thinking eccles had a Mancunian connection.....

.