Cardinal

Discussion forum for any overseas items (given that this is a "UK" butterflies forum!).
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Padfield
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Cardinal

Post by Padfield »

See http://www.cscf.ch/page24011.html (currently, the first item on the page, but that will change).

:D

The report is a little late because a new Swiss recorder has been helping me process all my data for the last few years.

1947, coincidentally (?) was a big migrant year in the UK. But I don't think 2005 was.

Guy
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Paul
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Re: Cardinal

Post by Paul »

Did that mean you were the first person to report a Cardinal in Switzerland since 1947??.. if so.. nice one.. I've never yet seen one
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Padfield
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Re: Cardinal

Post by Padfield »

It means I'm the first person they believed since 1947! :wink:

What a stroke of luck I was down there that day, looking for Iolas blues...

'Baguenaudier', incidentally, is French for bladder senna, foodplant of iolas as well as many other blues.

Guy
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The Butterflies of Villars-Gryon : https://www.guypadfield.com/villarsgryonbook.html
JKT
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Re: Cardinal

Post by JKT »

Congratulations! Such findings are really precious.
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Roger Gibbons
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Re: Cardinal

Post by Roger Gibbons »

I suspect Cardinals are extending their range northwards. I have a faint recollection that Tim has seen them recently in Rhone departement, but I could be wrong about this. I think yours is a female, Guy.

They are a fabulous sight, especially the females, heavily suffused bronze green. They are quite common on my patch in June and the second brood again in September. They visit the buddleia on my patio, which is pretty decent of them, I think.
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Mikhail
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Re: Cardinal

Post by Mikhail »

Roger, I'm interested in your mention of second brood Cardinals. Some years ago, when on holiday in the Almeria and Nerja areas in October, I formed the impression that the females were probably aestivating. At the start of my trip the weather was still hot and none were to be seen. Then we had a night of rain, which introduced fresher conditions, and suddenly Cardinals were everywhere, busily ovipositing. Do you see both sexes in the autumn?

Misha
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Roger Gibbons
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Re: Cardinal

Post by Roger Gibbons »

Yes, I do see both sexes but principally females, which is not the case for most other species. This seems (from my records) to be true for both the spring and autumn broods. I’ve considered these issues and – rather than repeat here – here’s the link to my pandora page:
http://www.butterfliesoffrance.com/html ... andora.htm
I’ve rather concluded that pandora is double brooded, rather than single brooded (“mid-May to September in one long generation” says Lafranchis) as the autumn emergers looked quite fresh. However, that does not preclude the possibility that emergers in late June go immediately into aestivation. In the autumn I see far more than in June, and in most parts of Var from the coastal regions to the north at altitudes of 950m.

It may well be different in southern Spain where the hot conditions may determine different behaviour.

This topic of aestivation has been considered with regard to the Grayling (Hipparchia semele) and I reproduce the dialogue here to see if anyone else has any experience or insight on this topic (I’m sure Tim won’t mind my reprinting his observations here)
Tim: (here = Rhone department, around Lyon)
….according to what's written in Lafranchis this species emerges earlier in Provence than elsewhere (i.e. June.) Then it behaves differently to elsewhere by estivating. We have already had discussions about the insect life in the Var 'stopping for a rest' from 10/7 until September through that blisteringly hot period. So the semele you are finding now are late June/early July butterflies stirring from estivation rather than emerging from chrysalis. The rules for Provence never seem to fit other places! Due to the milder weather the season seems longer at both ends, but with a bit of a pause in the middle for some things. The semele topic interests me a great deal as I still fail to find it here even if it has been seen as 'recently' as 1987. Guy talks of it as a 'late' species, presumably as it is commonest in UK in August??? In Provence it is thus 'very early' and 'very late'. Elsewhere the rules may be different again. I have seen specimens taken here in July 1987 (fresh) and lateish August 1980 (very knackered) so apparently here September semele is a non-starter.

Roger:
I don’t doubt for a moment what Lafranchis says, I just offer these observation re (a)estivation, and I wonder if I was so far north in Var (Col du Bel Homme alt 950m, north of Bargemon, and on 29 Sep at Mons alt 765m) to be outside the “Provence effect”. The ecology and climate here seems to have more in common with the rugged terrain of the Alpes de Haute Provence than the more southerly part of Var. Both locations are at reasonably high altitude and only really warm in the height of the summer. Even then, the temperature sometimes drops 10 degrees as we travel north from the coast. I didn’t see semele at either location until late September, nor at the Col on 9 Sep when it was quite cool. They all looked fresh, as if recently emerged but that would be the case if they went into estivation almost immediately on emerging. I also didn’t see any at either location on trips there in June (either in 2007 or 2008), but again that would be unlikely if they go straight into estivation. As everything is late this year, maybe their emergence from estivation is retarded as well. However, I do wonder why they would need to estivate in the relative coolness of north of Var, but as usual they know what they’re doing and it works for them.
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