Panasonic Lumix FZ330

[NickMorgan]

I have had a Lumix FZ150 since 2012 and it has been a fantastic camera. After several thousand pictures, I felt it was getting a bit worn out and the auto-focus was a little hit or miss.
So a couple of months ago I bought myself a Lumix FZ330. Initial impressions were that it was a quality camera. Heavier than the 150 and obviously being new, it has nice smooth action. However, I am really disappointed with the pictures I have had out of it. I have now taken over 500 shots of butterflies and the pictures are just not sharp and the depth of field is really limited. Initially, I thought this was down to our dreary Scottish summer weather, but we actually had some sun earlier this month and I still haven't taken one picture that matches up to the quality of my old Lumix. I was wondering if I was imagining it, but checking picture from the FZ150 they were definitely superior.
I don't know how apparent it is from these examples, but this was a picture taken this spring with my FZ150.

And this is probably one of the better pictures I have managed with the FZ330
I cropped both pictures and reduced their size to post on here, but I think it is still apparent that the picture of the Comma just isn't sharp.
I was just wondering if anyone has had similar issues with their camera, or if you can offer any advice about, either what I am doing wrong, or if the camera needs to go back to the shop.
Thank you

[Jack Harrison]

Depth of Field is a very complex issue.  The main factors affecting are: F/stop, focal length.

I would suggest experimenting on something static like a flower. 
Try filling the frame from various distances/ focal lengths. At a particular focal length, try different F/stops.

It might be necessary to up the ISO to 400 to avoid camera shake, but even at that ISO, the image degradation compared to say 160 will be negligible.
Better depth of field might be possible by NOT filling the frame but cropping afterwards - in effect mimicking an even smaller sensor   (All other things being equal, smaller sensors give better depth of field than larger sensors).

Just keep experimenting.  I am still learning after some 72 years as a photographer!

Jack

[MikeOxon]

While what Jack says is all true, I'm not sure that it is the problem in your case. The two cameras have the same size of sensor and very similar specifications overall, except that the FZ330 maintains constant aperture across the whole zoom range and also has weather sealing.

I looked at the EXIF data attached to your images, which provides full details of the settings you applied:

For the FZ150 photo, you used an exposure of 1/250s@f/5.2, ISO100, with the lens focal length at 108mm, recorded as equivalent in 35mm terms to 700mm.

For the FZ330 photo, you used an exposure of 1/640s@f/4, ISO100, also with the lens focal length at 108mm, BUT recorded as equivalent in 35mm terms to 1,169mm

That very last figure looks significant to me as it implies that you have a 2X magnification set somewhere in the software - perhaps described as 'teleconverter' or an 'extended range'

In conjunction with the wider aperture (f/4 vs f/5.2), the extra magnification applied has two effects - reduction of depth of field and reduction of image quality. The latter applies because the software magnifies any defects in the original image from the lens.

I suggest that you check through all your settings and make sure software magnification is turned 'off'. I would also recommend that, when using the lens at maximum zoom, you should try to limit the aperture to about f/8 or up to f/5.6 if the butterfly wings are spread flat across the frame

A good test for a lens is to photograph a page of newsprint and see how it looks at a range of settings on the camera.

Mike

[NickMorgan]

Thank you Jack,
I will play around with exposures. I have just been using it on the Auto setting up until now. It does seem so much more complex than my old camera.
Nick

[Bertl]

Nick

Although I now use a mirrorless camera and macro lens I still have my old panasonic fz200 which took some great photos.

I tuned into a few tutorial videos by Graham Houghton on YouTube which initially helped me set up my camera for butterfly photos. I set it up with iso200 and only toggled between f4.5 and f5 to take my butterfly photos.

I believe he has also covered the fz330 with a few tutorials.

I have attached some of my fz200 photos.

Cheers

Bert.

[David M]

Interesting Ringlet, Bertl.

[Padfield]

I too noticed the anomaly Mike refers to: 108mm on the small sensor being equivalent to 1169mm on a 35mm sensor. My own Canon Powershot, also a small-sensor camera, has a maximum focal length of 247mm yet that is only equivalent to 1365mm - not so much bigger than yours. So I agree: either you have an exceptionally small sensor or there is some software element artificially amplifying the zoom.

It's difficult to judge your picture because we don't know what fraction of the original it represents. It would seem to be inadequate quality, though, and either the camera is faulty or you are inadvertently using quite the wrong settings. Assuming you still have your old camera, I would take a picture of exactly the same subject - perhaps a landscape - with each camera, using auto settings and no zoom, and compare the results. Such a controlled experiment is more likely to reveal what is going wrong than comparing cropped, differently lit photos of different subjects.

Guy

[NickMorgan]

Thank you Mike. What you say is very interesting. I have dad a look at the settings and can's see anything about a 2X magnification or zoom. I tend to only use the optical zoom and not the digital zoom beyond that. Actually, with the FZ330, I find that it sometimes struggles to focus on a butterfly, so I do have to zoom right in and then back out in order that it understands what I am trying to focus on, even though I have it set to centre focus.
I am afraid I am not very camera literate, tending to prefer to point and press, than spend time adjusting exposure and shutter speed.
On the old FZ150 I used to have the dial set to Macro and adjusted the exposure using the button on the back. On the FZ330 there is no macro on the dial and I just use it on intelligent auto. There is a macro button on the side of the body, which I have never used, as I imagine that is for very close up shots, rather than zooming in to butterflies that are a couple of metres away.
Great idea about photographing some newspaper. I will give that a try tomorrow in the daylight.
Thank you again for your help.

[NickMorgan]

Thank you Bertl,
I suspect the FZ200 is an updated FZ150. I was really happy with the FZ150 until recently when it struggled to focus sharply and I suspect this was just down to wear and tear. If they had still made the FZ150 I would have just bought another!
I did find a Graham Houghton video when I first bought the camera.I thought it was really good, so I will have a look for some more of his videos to see if they help.

[NickMorgan]

Thank you Guy,
A great idea. Yes, I still have the old camera, so I will try some comparisons.
I was conscious that there is no direct comparison between the two pictures, but just wanted to try to illustrate that pictures taken with my old FZ150 showed individual scales and hairs and more often than not the whole butterfly was in focus from the thorax to the tips of the wings. The FZ330 just seems to be a bit fuzzy!
I was practising on Red Admirals last weekend and none of the pictures showed the hairs on the bodies of the butterflies. Just a blur.
As you and Mike have suggested I will investigate if there is some magnification setting that I am unaware of. In the old days of completely manual cameras I was fine adjusting the shutter speed and f stop. These modern digital cameras seem so complex.
Maybe I should see if there is a local photographic course I can go on to learn how best to use it.

Actually, when the camera arrived (from John Lewis) the box was sliding around inside a much larger cardboard box with no padding around it. Possibly it took a few knocks in transit. Also, when I use bluetooth to transfer pictures to my phone from the camera, it won't then switch off and I have to pop the battery out to do so. Possibly there is an issue with the camera, but I really need to check I am not doing something stupid before I think about sending it back.

[Ian Pratt]

This is a review from Amateur Photographer which may help.
https://amateurphotographer.com/review/ ... n%20sensor.

[Ian Pratt]

Two further reviews:
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65012028
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63244070

[NickMorgan]

Thank you Ian for the links to the reviews.
Having read them, I would expect my FZ330 to be producing much better pictures. As I have said previously my FZ150 produced much better photos. Much of this may be down to my own inadequacies. I don't find the manual (DVD version included) easy to understand. I will continue reading through it and experimenting, but either the settings are very wrong, or there is an issue with the camera.


Mike,
I did discover that there is an i.zoom option, which gives up to 2X higher than original zoom. However, this doesn't appear on the menu when the Auto setting is chosen. It does appear on other settings, but is switched off.

[Jack Harrison]

Nick: Maybe I should see if there is a local photographic course I can go on to learn how best to use it.

Nothing would beat the photo course that I began in around 1951. Everything was 'manual' then, so I had to learn the hard way. I recall trying to photograph a butterfly from a range of about 30 centimetres - it was hopelessly blurred. As a 12-year-old (albeit with a scientific mind), I had to work out what I was doing wrong. I had no adults who could guide me. I still use manual settings today for much of my photography.

Jack

[petesmith]

My FZ150 produced much better photos... I don't find the manual (DVD version included) easy to understand. I will continue reading through it and experimenting, but either the settings are very wrong, or there is an issue with the camera.

Hi Nick,
I am just catching up with this thread.

If it is any consolation, I recently had exactly the same experience as yourself. I too had a much-loved fz150 - a fabulous camera which gave me superb service and was well used for about 10 years. Some of my best images were taken with this camera; I would even say that it out-performed my more expensive Canon EOS700D/100mm IS-USM Macro Lens combo in many situations.

When the fz150 finally died on me last autumn I too purchased a brand new fz330, having been impressed with the reviews and the images that others had captured with this model.

Like you, I found myself very unhappy with the image quality. I persevered, tried all manner of different settings to overcome the issue of poor pictures, but got nowhere. My results were mostly soft, slightly blurred images, poor depth of field, lack of detail (no hairs visible on thorax for example, just a smudged effect). I have a reasonable working knowledge of f-stops/ISO/focus options etc, so couldn't understand what was going on. After about six months I was so disappointed with the fz330 (despite it being a lovely camera to use functionally - which counts for nothing if the images are poor!) that I trawled around on eBay and managed to pick up a replacement second-hand but immaculately conditioned fz150 for just £50.

I then ran a series of comparisons between the fz150 and fz330, shooting the same subject with the same camera setting, and the difference in image quality was dramatic - the fz150 produced much sharper, detailed pictures that could stand a good deal of zooming and cropping, whereas the fz330 produced pictures that looked like they had been taken at very high ISO by someone with a bit of a hand tremor.

My conclusion was that I had a faulty camera, and I have since read of others, including yourself, who have had similar issues. Clearly some people have fz330s that produce excellent results as there are images on this website taken with them, but it seems to me that there is a quality control issue with this model and that there are some rogue examples out there.

I eventually got rid of my fz330 and traded it in for an fz1000, which has produced much better results, although can be a little unpredictable, and I still favour my Ebay fz150 - the best £50 I have ever spent!

Regards

Pete

[Jack Harrison]

I have vague recollections of Graham Houghton - who seems to make a living out of reviewing/testing Lumix cameras - once commenting about some examples of apparently the same camera that produced markedly inferior results.

So there could well be a quality control issue. The trouble is, once you find out that you've bought a bad'un, it's probably too late to get your money back.

Jack

[Testudo Man]

Hi Nick, sorry you are having problems with the Panny FZ330/300.
Some very good points/suggestions have already been made in this thread, which covers most of the suggestions i would make.
Its true, like anything "man made" there can be quality control issues with camera gear, an the FZ330/300 has had its complaints too!! You may have bought a "Lemon" an no matter what you try/change/adjust (in regards to camera settings) nothing helps, an your camera will just not be sharp/in focus.

Ive had extensive use of both FZ150 and FZ330/300 cameras in the past(im talking tens of 1000's of images shot by both cameras) but ive always used close up filters attached to the end of the lens. As in - Quality Canon/Polaroid 500D close up filters. I would say, that the FZ330/300 is a better camera than that of the FZ150, but there is not a lot in it.
If i can remember, whilst the FZ150 has an easy macro setting, the FZ330/300 does not have an easy to apply macro setting, so im sure i used a "work around" for this? Without trying to find both of my cameras to compare (my FZ330 got smashed, falling from a fast moving car!!!) so does not work an its just a paperweight now! I will try to find both my camera bodies, an refresh my memory, as to what settings i used, an come back to this thread later.

I would suggest, as a fair comparison, use both cameras side by side, at the very same time, with the same kind of light/conditions etc etc. Shoot plenty of images, of various subjects, at various camera settings etc. Only then, will you get a fair idea, of what is what. Since you are into wildlife/Butterflies etc. then those are the images that you should be taking pics of. If not, grab various objects around the house, shoot an compare...even a leaf, or a garden flower...shoot pics of objects the same sort of size as a butterfly.

It could be down to something simple or overlooked in the camera menu settings, such as image stabilzation not activated? ISO settings are important with these small sensor Bridge Cameras...I always had mine set at ISO-100 for best results.
Anyway, see how you go Nick...but if all else fails to give you the kind of images you expect from such a camera, then yes, you may well have a "Lemon" an the only option would be exchange for another...then try it all again!
Cheers Paul.

[NickMorgan]

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and comments. They are very much appreciated.
At last, at the end of our four-day September break the rain stopped this afternoon and the sun even came out for a while. It was quite windy, but at least there was a bit more light to allow me to take some trial pictures with the FZ330 and FZ150.

Pete,
Our lives seem to be living in parallel! Not only am I going to exactly the same hotel as you have visited in Costa Rica, but it turns out we have had the same cameras and exactly the same issues. What you describe is exactly my experience. The FZ150 was just starting to feel a bit worn out and after 12 years and many thousand shots I thought I should upgrade to something newer, before going on my holiday of a lifetime. The FZ330 seemed like the natural choice and the dust and weather protection seemed good. As you say, it feels like a quality product, but the results are pretty useless.

Testudo Man,
I spent some time this afternoon playing about with settings and taking similar shots with both cameras. It seems that I got the best results using Intelligent Auto. I tried various focus settings, ISOs, etc, but nothing was better than IA. However, no setting was as good as the FZ150.

I have spent some time watching Graham Houghton's videos and reading his handbook. All excellent stuff and explained in such a way that even I understand!! I tried his suggestions for settings. I was lucky that some brave Red Admirals came out to play this afternoon, so I was able to practice with them, but also I took some landscapes and pictures of print. Conclusion is that the 330 appears to produce slightly better landscape shots. A better exposure, really and no discernible difference in focus, or detail. For printed material, the handbook zoomed into to fill the screen, the FZ150 was just slightly sharper. However, with butterflies (the whole reason for me having this camera) the FZ150 produced a nice sharp shot straight away. The FZ330 was just as Pete described, just not in focus.
Below are pictures that I cropped in order to upload them to this site. The original size of both was 4000 x3000 pixels, cropped to 800 x 600.
FZ330

FZ150

The pictures were taken within seconds of each other, same butterfly, taken from about 2 metres away.
One thing I noticed was that when I was taking pictures with the FZ330, the image looking through the viewfinder was perfectly in focus as I pressed the shutter button. However, as soon as the picture was taken the image that was then shown through the viewfinder was blurred. I wonder if there is something up with the SD card, or the processing.

[Testudo Man]

Hi Nick, well, you cant really argue with the comparison pics hey!

After some searching, i found my smashed FZ330...put a battery in it, an it did power up, but no control over anything on the camera!!!
I checked on-screen icons, my focus point was set to center of screen, an i had enlarged focal point to max. Also, the little macro symbol, is on screen, as well as usual other settings. Mode dial was set on A (for aperture priority) but i often set dial to M (manual mode).

However, i would never use the AI modes at all, if i remember, AI mode means little random focus boxes popping up all over the place. You have to have complete control over your chosen focus points. So Nick, try these settings please mate, an give it another go. These are my settings an as you know, ive captured some great images over the years...although as stated before, i always used a Canon 500D close up filter attached to lens.

These setting will need good light, because in A mode, you want shutter speed up at least 400, but ideally a much faster shutter speed.
Set mode dial to A (aperture priority) that way the camera chooses shutter speed, exposure etc. I would set aperture to maybe f/4 to f/5.
Set ISO to 100 max. I would also set exposure comp. to minus 1/3. Set focus point to single point focus, an enlarge focal point to max sized square, which should be in center of screen. Make sure you have camera set to macro, Auto focus mode. The FZ330 will remember the size of the central large focus point/area (even if you turn the camera off)...something the FZ150 would not do, which always frustrated the hell out of me, when turning the FZ150 off/on...i had to then quickly adjust the size of the focus box!!! before i could shoot pics of moving butterflies!
Also try this, go into camera settings menu, an find slider bars for sharpness, set sharpness for +1...but set noise to -1. In jpeg mode, lots of people set noise levels down to max minus, which i think might be -5...but thats something for you to play around with in the future, as we dont want to confuse too much at this stage.
These types of settings are what i used to capture decent images with my FZ330, i also use virtually the same settings for my 2 Panasonic cameras that i use today, those cameras being FZ1000/Canon 500D close up filter, an G9 with the Oly 60mm 2.8 macro lens (no close up filter attached with Oly lens).

For the 1st couple of months this year, i used Mode A (Aperture) for both of my cameras(since they were new to me at the start of this season)...but i then set cameras to M (Manual mode) because i wanted greater control over exactly what i wanted the camera to do/produce. A mode is a safer/easier option...but M Mode is where you want to be going, if you want full control of everything.
Hope this helps Nick...an i hope your FZ330 isnt a "Lemon"...........if you get out of AI modes, if you control/enlarge your centralized single focus point, if you stick to ISO 100, if you set to macro/autofocus, if you set sharpness to +1, then im sure your images will improve a great deal.


EDIT - Sorry Nick, i forgot to add something quite important, so have come back to this thread. I always have Auto Focus set to AFC, because since butterflies are constantly moving, then it just makes sense to have AF set on continuous. A couple of weeks ago, i somehow set my AF on the wrong setting(AFS) an as a result of this, most of my pics taken on that setting were not as sharp as normal. After, i went back to my favoured setting of AFC, an my images were once again sharp/in focus. Cheers Paul.

[NickMorgan]

Thank you so much for the details of all the settings you have found to be best.
I ended up sending the camera to Panasonic's recognised repairers after I phoned them last Tuesday. They had me check various settings and then said they had run out of solutions, so I was to send it in. Hopefully I will hear back from them soon and have a repaired or replacement camera.
I have to admit that I get really confused with the various modes and particularly with this model hot having a macro mode. Your suggestions are very much appreciated and will allow me to give the camera a thorough test when it comes back. I just hope I get it back while there are still butterflies around to experiment with!!
Actually, today it has been pretty windy and drizzly most of the day, but despite that there were still 31 Red Admirals feeding on my orange buddleia and yew berries!