November 2022

[David M]

Saturday 12th, Gower Inn, Parkmill:

Solitary Red Admiral seen investigating the nettles, presumably looking to oviposit:

[zigzag_wanderer]

No butterflies spotted today (very wet and quite cold here), but we did find this moth in a pot of mini cyclamen.

I'm going to call it as a Pearly Underwing.

As always, very happy to be corrected !

[aeshna5]

Agree a Pearly Underwing-presumably a recent migrant arrival.

[David M]

Saturday 12th, Park Wood, Gower:

Male Brimstone seen resting on ivy near the car park at this site:

[millerd]

After a very wet 24 hours locally, the sun emerged today (16th) at around 1030 and stayed out until 1300. The wind also dropped a fair bit and for a brief period it felt warm again. A few butterflies concurred with this: I saw two Red Admirals and a Comma. However, of the three only one Red Admiral was photographable, and even that one barely so...

I also disturbed a Silver-Y moth, which refused to stay in one place long enough to be more than just identified.

At least butterfly larvae don't move around quite so much. In the Red Admiral "nursery" near home, four separate tents could be seen, and all appeared to be occupied. Here are the three largest of the four.

As a Red Admiral caterpillar is quite capable of devouring a whole nettle leaf over a day or two, these tents are in different places each time I visit as their occupants move on. There is currently ample foliage for a small army, so none is likely to starve; a hard frost would be the enemy, but this currently looks unlikely here for a while, especially in this warm little nook.

Dave

[Matsukaze]

Red Admiral in the garden here in Somerset this morning, nectaring on Viburnum bodnantense, then flying patrol and interception missions over next door's garden in the early afternoon.

[zigzag_wanderer]

Agree a Pearly Underwing-presumably a recent migrant arrival.

Thanks as always for the confirmation, aeshna.

No butterflies (nor Common Darter) today, but I did see both a macro and (very) micro moth sunning themselves on the green side netting.

Pretty certain the former is the Sprawler. Not sure about the mini micro though, maybe a dowd of some sort.

Sprawler seems a bit of a pejorative name to get lumbered with. On the flip side, I'd like to see a late Bittersweet Smudge. What a great name that is !

[David M]

Sunday 13th, Cosmeston Lakes, Cardiff:

Red Admiral 5
Brimstone 1
Clouded Yellow 1

[Stevieb]

Three Red Admirals seen this lunchtime. All typically flighty. Beacon Hill, Wiltshire

18th November

18th November

[David M]

I'm finding quite a few females staking out patches of nettles lately, Steve. Now the ivy flowers have practically all gone that seems to be the best place to search.

[millerd]

A case in point, David:

A sunny start to the day locally today (18th November), and by 1030 it was no longer particularly chilly. In the next hour or so I found Red Admirals: three adults, three caterpillars and at least four eggs. The first of these was an adult female alternately basking and laying - which is what led me to look for eggs. The caterpillars were all in the usual spot close by. Another adult was basking further on and posed nicely (though had seen better days), but the third was nectaring, hopping between bramble flowers and then circling round me before heading off briskly southwards (a male I suspect, perhaps migrating sunwards).

The initial female was a quite pronounced bialbata variation...

...and here are a couple of her eggs. The second one was laid while she was on the nettle in the shot above.

One of the caterpillars can be glimpsed hiding in its tent...

...and this is the second adult.

I looked in vain for a chrysalis to complete the life-cycle set, but three out of four within a few minutes in the second half of November is pretty good.

Dave

[Allan.W.]

Yes Zig-Zag .............a Sprawler .............nice one !
Sitting eating my sandwiches this lunchtime ,a fast flying butterfly shot by .....................Red Admiral I think ,first butterfly for me since a single Holly Blue in New Romney about two weeks ago. Very mild .............up to 14c .
Allan.W.

[zigzag_wanderer]

Thanks Allan. I thought it must be but always good to get confirmed.

It looks quite plain from a distance but close up it has some very warm "Wryneck throat" colours in there.

Glad to see lunchtime sarnie eating works for you too re. occasional fly-by sightings !

[bugboy]

A case in point, David:

A sunny start to the day locally today (18th November), and by 1030 it was no longer particularly chilly. In the next hour or so I found Red Admirals: three adults, three caterpillars and at least four eggs. The first of these was an adult female alternately basking and laying - which is what led me to look for eggs. The caterpillars were all in the usual spot close by. Another adult was basking further on and posed nicely (though had seen better days), but the third was nectaring, hopping between bramble flowers and then circling round me before heading off briskly southwards (a male I suspect, perhaps migrating sunwards).

The initial female was a quite pronounced bialbata variation...RA1 181122.JPG...and here are a couple of her eggs. The second one was laid while she was on the nettle in the shot above.RA egg2 181122.JPGRA egg1 181122.JPGOne of the caterpillars can be glimpsed hiding in its tent...RA cat1 181122.JPG...and this is the second adult.RA2 181122.JPG
I looked in vain for a chrysalis to complete the life-cycle set, but three out of four within a few minutes in the second half of November is pretty good.

Dave

Ahhh, I see you've fallen into the cunning trap left by the powers that be that name butterfly aberrations, bialbata is only an ab in the male, it would seem the extra spot is deemed too common in the female for it to be deemed an aberration ....... yes those are my thoughts too

[millerd]

...bialbata is only an ab in the male, it would seem the extra spot is deemed too common in the female for it to be deemed an aberration ...

Well, you learn something every day... I suspect not many people know that! However, in my defence m'lud, I would point out that I never mentioned the word "aberration" and sneakily said "variation" just in case...

And yes, you know my thoughts on the (mis)use of the term "aberration" and the issues around it.

Cheers,

Dave

[bugboy]

...bialbata is only an ab in the male, it would seem the extra spot is deemed too common in the female for it to be deemed an aberration ...

Well, you learn something every day... I suspect not many people know that! However, in my defence m'lud, I would point out that I never mentioned the word "aberration" and sneakily said "variation" just in case...

And yes, you know my thoughts on the (mis)use of the term "aberration" and the issues around it.

Cheers,

Dave

Just read up on this ab/variation/form and to quote "The red band of the forewings showing a white spot. Verity counts this spot in with the white submarginal ones, to make seven in all. He says that it only applies to males since the females usually have it and males do not. This is not so in England."

I'm not entirely sure how this statement works in the real world with a migratory species unless the males somehow usually shed the extra white spot on immigration across the channel. Also does the statement mean that it does apply in other parts of the UK?

[millerd]

Just read up on this ab/variation/form and to quote "The red band of the forewings showing a white spot. Verity counts this spot in with the white submarginal ones, to make seven in all. He says that it only applies to males since the females usually have it and males do not. This is not so in England."

I'm not entirely sure how this statement works in the real world with a migratory species unless the males somehow usually shed the extra white spot on immigration across the channel. Also does the statement mean that it does apply in other parts of the UK?

All this just adds weight to my thoughts about the artificial concept of "aberration" as opposed to variation or form - or at least how they are applied. Do we know what kind of research the authority quoted above conducted or examined before making such a statement? What were their definitions?

(Just as an aside, the second of the two photos posted above by StevieB look as if it shows a female (by its pose on nettles), and it lacks the spot altogether.)

Dave

[Matsukaze]

Red Admiral still flying here in Somerset. It feels oddly spring-like, with queen bumblebees out and about as well.

[adrian riley]

Just read up on this ab/variation/form and to quote "The red band of the forewings showing a white spot. Verity counts this spot in with the white submarginal ones, to make seven in all. He says that it only applies to males since the females usually have it and males do not. This is not so in England."

I'm not entirely sure how this statement works in the real world with a migratory species unless the males somehow usually shed the extra white spot on immigration across the channel. Also does the statement mean that it does apply in other parts of the UK?

All this just adds weight to my thoughts about the artificial concept of "aberration" as opposed to variation or form - or at least how they are applied. Do we know what kind of research the authority quoted above conducted or examined before making such a statement? What were their definitions?

(Just as an aside, the second of the two photos posted above by StevieB look as if it shows a female (by its pose on nettles), and it lacks the spot altogether.)

Dave

Hi, Gang

I am pleased to see these comments finally come up for discussion. I have for some time considered presenting the following and now seems the right time to do so. The following definitions are lifted from my book co-written with Gaston Prior (deceased) in 2003 British and Irish Pug Moths: A Guide to their identification and Biology. Harley Books, Essex. They were agreed upon after many months of discussion amongst several eminent lepidopterists of the time. I hope the readers find this useful.
Infraspecific terminology
Subspecies
A subspecies is a taxon which is predominant, distinct in appearance and allochronic (separated by different adult flight periods) or allopatric geographically isolated) from the nominotypical or other subspecies. Genetic isolation is an essential prerequisite for the use of this term. It has often been used erroneously to describe clinal geographic forms (see below) which are sympatric (occupying the same locality) over part of their respective distributional ranges. Island subspecies, which appear to be part of a discontinuous cline, must be distinct in appearance from the subspecies, or the predominant form, occurring on the nearest adjacent island or the mainland.
The name given to the subspecies can either be used trinomially, e.g. Eupithecia denotata jasioneata Crewe, or be preceded by the abbreviation 'subsp.', e.g. Eupithecia denotata (Hubner) subsp. jasioneata Crewe.
Form
A form is a taxon distinct in appearance and of infrasubspecific rank, but sympatric or synchronic with the nominal taxon, which can recur or predominate at a given geographical location. Although a form may predominate in some populations, it can occur elsewhere at very low frequency (e.g. E. vulgata form scotica Cockayne, which is to be found occasionally in southern England). Provided these individuals conform to the original description of the form, they should be referred to as such and not as aberrations. A form conforming to the original description of a subspecies, but found outside its isolated geographical range (e.g. some of the dark [subspecies] fumosae-like individuals of E. venosata which occur in Orkney), should be referred to as a form approaching that subspecies. Under such circumstances it would be unwise and unnecessary to describe a further formal taxon for these individuals. Forms occur in response to [changes in] various environmental factors such as climate, pollution and larval foodplant as well as to selective pressures such as predation. They may be controlled genetically (e.g. the melanic form atropicta of E. vulgata) or by external influences e.g. the Calluna-feeding form goossensiata of E. absinthiata).
The name given to a form is preceded by the abbreviation 'f'.' e.g. E. vulgata f. scotica.
The continuous spatial gradation of superficial characters from one form to another is termed a 'cline'. Such geographical forms are sometimes [though now seldomly] referred to as 'races' e.g. the Scottish 'race' of E. vulgata f. scotica.
Aberration
An aberration is an individual variant, resulting from genetic mutation or extreme environmental anomalies, which can occur erratically in any given population. The degree of mutation may be extreme or slight; superficial or structural. Theoretically, it would be possible for the frequency of an aberration to increase over a period of time if it were subjected to neutral or positive selection. In such circumstances, the taxon would then be regarded as a form. In the past, many authors applied the term 'aberration' to any varietal taxon, regardless of how it had been formed or its frequency.
The name given to an aberration is preceded by the abbreviation 'ab.', e.g. Gymnoscellis rufifasciata ab. nigrofasciata.
Variety
A largely outdated blanket term denoting any individual showing morphological or superficial deviation from the nominotypical form.
Race
A synonymic term used to describe geographic forms or hostplant-related populations of a given species, e.g. the buckthorn-feeding 'race' of E. fraxinata or the Scottish 'race' of E. vulgata. (See 'form' above).
Comments welcome!!!
Ade

[bugboy]

Just read up on this ab/variation/form and to quote "The red band of the forewings showing a white spot. Verity counts this spot in with the white submarginal ones, to make seven in all. He says that it only applies to males since the females usually have it and males do not. This is not so in England."

I'm not entirely sure how this statement works in the real world with a migratory species unless the males somehow usually shed the extra white spot on immigration across the channel. Also does the statement mean that it does apply in other parts of the UK?

All this just adds weight to my thoughts about the artificial concept of "aberration" as opposed to variation or form - or at least how they are applied. Do we know what kind of research the authority quoted above conducted or examined before making such a statement? What were their definitions?

(Just as an aside, the second of the two photos posted above by StevieB look as if it shows a female (by its pose on nettles), and it lacks the spot altogether.)

Dave

Hi, Gang

I am pleased to see these comments finally come up for discussion. I have for some time considered presenting the following and now seems the right time to do so. The following definitions are lifted from my book co-written with Gaston Prior (deceased) in 2003 British and Irish Pug Moths: A Guide to their identification and Biology. Harley Books, Essex. They were agreed upon after many months of discussion amongst several eminent lepidopterists of the time. I hope the readers find this useful.
Infraspecific terminology
Subspecies
A subspecies is a taxon which is predominant, distinct in appearance and allochronic (separated by different adult flight periods) or allopatric geographically isolated) from the nominotypical or other subspecies. Genetic isolation is an essential prerequisite for the use of this term. It has often been used erroneously to describe clinal geographic forms (see below) which are sympatric (occupying the same locality) over part of their respective distributional ranges. Island subspecies, which appear to be part of a discontinuous cline, must be distinct in appearance from the subspecies, or the predominant form, occurring on the nearest adjacent island or the mainland.
The name given to the subspecies can either be used trinomially, e.g. Eupithecia denotata jasioneata Crewe, or be preceded by the abbreviation 'subsp.', e.g. Eupithecia denotata (Hubner) subsp. jasioneata Crewe.
Form
A form is a taxon distinct in appearance and of infrasubspecific rank, but sympatric or synchronic with the nominal taxon, which can recur or predominate at a given geographical location. Although a form may predominate in some populations, it can occur elsewhere at very low frequency (e.g. E. vulgata form scotica Cockayne, which is to be found occasionally in southern England). Provided these individuals conform to the original description of the form, they should be referred to as such and not as aberrations. A form conforming to the original description of a subspecies, but found outside its isolated geographical range (e.g. some of the dark [subspecies] fumosae-like individuals of E. venosata which occur in Orkney), should be referred to as a form approaching that subspecies. Under such circumstances it would be unwise and unnecessary to describe a further formal taxon for these individuals. Forms occur in response to [changes in] various environmental factors such as climate, pollution and larval foodplant as well as to selective pressures such as predation. They may be controlled genetically (e.g. the melanic form atropicta of E. vulgata) or by external influences e.g. the Calluna-feeding form goossensiata of E. absinthiata).
The name given to a form is preceded by the abbreviation 'f'.' e.g. E. vulgata f. scotica.
The continuous spatial gradation of superficial characters from one form to another is termed a 'cline'. Such geographical forms are sometimes [though now seldomly] referred to as 'races' e.g. the Scottish 'race' of E. vulgata f. scotica.
Aberration
An aberration is an individual variant, resulting from genetic mutation or extreme environmental anomalies, which can occur erratically in any given population. The degree of mutation may be extreme or slight; superficial or structural. Theoretically, it would be possible for the frequency of an aberration to increase over a period of time if it were subjected to neutral or positive selection. In such circumstances, the taxon would then be regarded as a form. In the past, many authors applied the term 'aberration' to any varietal taxon, regardless of how it had been formed or its frequency.
The name given to an aberration is preceded by the abbreviation 'ab.', e.g. Gymnoscellis rufifasciata ab. nigrofasciata.
Variety
A largely outdated blanket term denoting any individual showing morphological or superficial deviation from the nominotypical form.
Race
A synonymic term used to describe geographic forms or hostplant-related populations of a given species, e.g. the buckthorn-feeding 'race' of E. fraxinata or the Scottish 'race' of E. vulgata. (See 'form' above).
Comments welcome!!!
Ade

I would suggest this subject be moved to its own thread as its a bit off topic now.