Martin White

[Pete Eeles]

Sad news that Martin White passed away yesterday. Love him or loathe him, he was incredibly knowledgeable - and a nice article from Patrick Barkham released today ...

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... k-wildlife

Cheers,

- Pete

[Sij]

Very very sad to hear this. Martin was a legend in my eyes and a man who was steeped in knowledge. He devoted his life to butterflies......

[Padfield]

Very sad news.

RIP Martin.

Guy

[David M]

Sad news that Martin White passed away yesterday. Love him or loathe him, he was incredibly knowledgeable - and a nice article from Patrick Barkham released today ...

Sad news indeed. The article is very well written and highly readable.

I know he was considered a maverick, but Martin White clearly loved butterflies and had amassed a great amount of knowledge over his lifetime, mainly through his efforts to understand breeding cycles and habitat requirements.

One thing we all share with him is a desire to see butterfly populations increase and spread, and his many failures indicate how complex this is to achieve artificially.

May he rest in peace.

[petesmith]

Very sad indeed. I consider myself very fortunate to have known Martin, to count him as a friend, and to have spent time with him out in the field on a good number of occasions over the years. His knowledge and skills when it came to breeding butterflies were second to none, his scientific endeavours and meticulous attention to detail were inspirational. Admittedly he polarized opinion with his introductions and releases, but no-one can deny his great enthusiasm, love of, and devotion to butterflies. A great character with a unique personality and perspective on life, I shall miss him very much.
RIP Martin. Legend is not too strong a word.

[Pete Eeles]

It's a real shame that Martin isn't with us to read these comments. A friend of mine referred to Martin as a 'National Treasure'. But always contentious!

I spoke with Martin many times, most recently a few months ago when he told me of his prognosis. Even toward the end, he was thinking of his first love - and giving me the 'ins and outs' of the Mazarine Blue and its habitat requirements, parasites, predators etc. Definitely a 'one off' and I doubt I'll ever come across his like again.

Cheers,

- Pete

[David M]

...Even toward the end, he was thinking of his first love - and giving me the 'ins and outs' of the Mazarine Blue and its habitat requirements, parasites, predators etc.

I remember you referring to a Mazarine Blue colony some while ago, Pete. All makes sense now.

[Catteraxe]

A sad loss indeed. RIP Martin White.

[Mark Colvin]

One thing that has been highlighted by the reactions I’ve seen to Patrick’s article, particularly on Twitter, is an obvious lack of effective understanding, communication and collaboration between certain inward-looking conservation bodies and those who may have a different opinion / perspective / insights / experience that could actually help them. I find this extremely depressing at a time when we all need to be working together - how to fix?

I was fortunate to have known Martin and his knowledge and great passion for butterflies was, without doubt, second to none.

RIP Martin

[Pete Eeles]

Nice concise summary, Mark. Having read Patrick's article several times now, I have very little to add.

It's quite interesting to see that almost all of the comments I've seen to Patrick's article are overwhelmingly in support of Martin's work, except those from individuals associated with a conservation body, which are overwhelmingly against his work. Pretty much as Patrick writes.

I really like Patrick's article for clearly expressing the two different points of view - allowing any reader to make a more-informed opinion about 'introductionists' and conservation bodies. Like you, I already had an opinion, since I feel like I already understood where each party is coming from and their relative contribution.

In terms of introductions, the introductionists and conservation bodies are more similar than different! Both are knowledgeable, both do detailed research, both keep meticulous records etc. etc. One difference, of course, is that one party 'plays by the rules' and the other doesn't - as exemplified in Patrick's article: “Introducing the purple emperor from 300 miles away – I’m sorry, that’s just not right.” And yet it's ok to introduce the Chequered Skipper from Belgium because it's 'official'?

I therefore think that your point about communication and collaboration is key - but that would require a willingness to collaborate.

Cheers,

- Pete

[David M]

Earlier today, I re-read this thread in its entirety:

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=4946

It reminded me of just how passionate he was (too much so for some).

[BOO]

So sad to see him go!
Got to know Martin very well and was truly amazed how intelligent, knowledgeable, kind, modest he was.
A person that you could not replace.
He had worked out so many of the unknowns of the insect/plant/ant world it was quite remarkable.

One little story I remember-
We went to Bedford Purlieus one day to survey Southern wood ants, we came across our first nest and Martin brings out some caterpillars from a box. I said, 'What you got there?' He said, 'Mazarine blue and Brown hairstreak cats. I just want to see what happens when I place them on a nest.' Brown hairstreak, the ants just ignored. Mazarine blue straight away started secreting. Ants were milking it. 'Some form of Mutualism going on there and something that has not happened for a very long time in the UK.' He said.

Its all these little pieces of evidence that he was constantly gaining through his work that made him so knowledgeable and a leader in his field.

Will miss him dearly.

Rest in Peace Martin.

[Pete Eeles]

Earlier today, I re-read this thread in its entirety:

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=4946

It reminded me of just how passionate he was (too much so for some).

Indeed! Thanks for posting, David. The comments section here is also worth a gander: https://naturebftb.co.uk/2018/06/18/the ... d-skipper/

It's clear from Patrick's article that Martin became very disillusioned with certain conservation bodies over the years, which overflowed onto UKB and elsewhere. Which is a real shame given that he knew more about captive rearing, especially, than anyone I've ever known - a key requirement if you want to introduce certain species.

Cheers,

- Pete

[selbypaul]

It's so interesting reading back that thread from 2010 and 2011, thanks for sharing it David.

I remember reading it back then, nine years ago, when my butterfly knowledge was very limited. I never commented at the time, but my instinctive reaction was that Martin was 100% wrong to be doing what he was doing.

With lots more knowledge about butterfly ecology these days, I can absolutely see that things are much more nuanced. One of Martin's favourite release sites, Lindrick Common, is not far from where I live. Marbled White, Dark Green Fritillary and Silver Studded Blue are all thriving there, with the former two species having spread over a wider area. Those species wouldn't be there without Martin. We can agree or disagree about whether they should be there or not. But they are a pleasure to see each year, when I visit.

RIP Martin - If I only ever have 10% of your knowledge about butterfly ecology, I'll have done well!

[David M]

Yes, Paul, much time has passed since Martin posted on that thread, and my view at that time was that he was a bit of an eccentric but probably knew more about butterflies than just about anyone else.

He spent sixteen hours a day looking after his breeding stock and researching things. His life was clearly devoted to this pursuit to the exclusion of virtually anything else, including holidays (the last of which he had was to Blackpool in 1974).

I acknowledge some of his replies were a little condescending, but I suppose a lifetime of being treated as a pariah/pseudo-scientist made him more trigger-happy than most.

I wonder what will happen to the records he diligently kept. I hope to God they will be preserved somehow.

[Jack Harrison]

I put forward an unconventional thought.

If a Beaver builds a dam and causes a river flood, we say that is natural.  If a Horse Chestnut leaf miner moth destroys the tree, again we say that is natural (albeit, annoying).

So why do we say that activities of Homo sapiens are not natural?  We are after all, just another animal allegedly the most intelligent creatures on the planet (although many will dispute that claim). If a landowner destroys an ancient forest so that he can grow more crops and improve (?) his lifestyle, surely that too is perfectly natural.  Then later if a human introductionist decides to release some butterflies in an attempt to put right the earlier destructions by that animal H.sapiens, why is that not equally "natural"?

Jack

[Padfield]

I put forward an unconventional thought.

If a Beaver builds a dam and causes a river flood, we say that is natural.  If a Horse Chestnut leaf miner moth destroys the tree, again we say that is natural (albeit, annoying).

So why do we say that activities of Homo sapiens are not natural?  We are after all, just another animal allegedly the most intelligent creatures on the planet (although many will dispute that claim). If a landowner destroys an ancient forest so that he can grow more crops and improve (?) his lifestyle, surely that too is perfectly natural.  Then later if a human introductionist decides to release some butterflies in an attempt to put right the earlier destructions by that animal H.sapiens, why is that not equally "natural"?

Jack

I agree with you, Jack. Everything that happens, whether human or non-human in origin, is natural, in the broadest sense. Not everything that happens is good or desirable. For that reason, it is (in my opinion) an error to equate 'natural', in that broad sense, with either 'good' or 'desirable'. Nature is what happens, no more, no less.

Nevertheless, man has proved himself to be a particularly destructive and destabilising natural force, and there is a narrower sense in which I think it is sometimes useful to distinguish between human activity and other natural processes, if only as a mark of humility. Things we conjure up out of our brains just don't hold a candle to things evolved over millions and millions of years, and very often either don't work or have unintended consequences.

Martin White, we all agree, understood, loved, respected and worked with nature. I believe our conservation bodies also understand, love, respect and work with nature, even if few individuals within them could lay claim to Martin's unique knowledge and abilities. It is a shame he and they did not always understand, love, respect and work with each other!!

Guy

[Pete Eeles]

I remember the last time this was discussed, and I've softened my stance - my previous conclusion was a simple question - what would anyone consider unnatural? And I think you've answered that very eloquently, Guy

Cheers,

- Pete

[Medard]

As a complete novice on the subject of reintroduction of species I am at a lost to understand some of the augments against reintroduction,  in 2012 a friend tipped me off that Glanville Fritillaries (Melitaea cinxia) had been seen at Sand point near W S M, I didn't even know what a Glanville Fritillary was but being curious I went along to investigate, I soon found them at the location described, they were in good numbers, I returned the following year and found only one, it does seem as David M observes introducing species are not always successful, nature decided against this introduction.I seem to remember this introduction was condemned as irresponsible !!!

Glanville Fritillary (Melitaea cinxia).

On the other hand the Large Blue has been a great success at several  sites here in Somerset drawing many admirers who come to see them, this has been hailed as a great conservation achievement !!!

Large Blue

Furthermore as a Somerset boy how I would rejoice to see the Large Copper once again flying over our reserves, it does seem entirely practical, once again nature would decide the outcome.

https://jamesgibbs6929.zenfolio.com

[David M]

As a complete novice on the subject of reintroduction of species I am at a lost to understand some of the augments against reintroduction,  in 2012 a friend tipped me off that Glanville Fritillaries (Melitaea cinxia) had been seen at Sand point near W S M, I didn't even know what a Glanville Fritillary was but being curious I went along to investigate, I soon found them at the location described, they were in good numbers, I returned the following year and found only one...

Yes, I well remember that colony, Jim, and given that I made the journey to see them several times (along with those at Wrecclesham on one occasion), it would have been hypocritical for me to condemn someone for 'unauthorised' releases elsewhere.

As others have said, it would be nice if a way could be found to accommodate people such as Martin instead of treating them as a renegade.