Pauline

[Pauline]

Obviously I'm still upset about this butterfly collection thing and to that end have been looking at the BC web site which was a bit of a revelation to me. They have a quite comprehensive policy on collecting, breeding and photography - amongst other things. Did you know for example:

Taking for rearing and release:

Taking a limited number of specimens (up to 5 eggs or caterpillars) of only the most common and widespread native species to be bred in captivity for educational purposes is legitimate, and can be a useful way of understanding some of the details of the life history of butterflies and moths. However, there can be no conservation justification for rearing and releasing large numbers of common and widespread species (Defined for the purposes of this policy as Painted Lady, Peacock, Comma and Red Admiral. Common and widespread moth species which would fall into this category include Pale Tussock, Knot Grass and Elephant Hawkmoth, all of which are easy to rear.)

and from the commercial side:

Collecting for commercial purposes is not in the best interests of Lepidoptera conservation in the United Kingdom and Butterfly Conservation supports all measures to regulate trading of butterflies and moths. In the absence of comprehensive regulation, Butterfly Conservation expects those engaged in the trade in butterflies and moths to observe the law and encourages them to observe the principles set out in this policy.

It's well worth a read but in my opinion doesn't go far enough.

[Wurzel]

I wish I had been joking Pauline

Anyway on a brighter notes...That is a fantastically surreal looking site Pauline Cracking hits of the female

Have a goodun and stay safe

Wurzel

[David M]

What an interesting site for Purple Hairstreaks, Pauline. If in doubt, venture out. You did and were well rewarded.

[Neil Freeman]

.What an interesting site for Purple Hairstreaks, Pauline.

Ditto.

Great shots of the Purple Hairstreaks too. I want to check out a couple of local sites for these but it looks like I need to wait a couple of days now for the wind to subside. It's gone 'orrible here again.

Cheers,

Neil.

[Pauline]

Thank you Neil. I sympathise - we've had 40mph gales for the last 3 days. Good luck!

It's a great site Wurzel as it combines 2 of my favourite things - the sea and butterflies. Grayling are also found on this site.

I ventured out again today David. It was better than yesterday (well, it wasn't raining!) and again I was well rewarded. I am just so excited. I saw plenty of butterflies, including SWF and WA but whilst I was moving in for a shot on a SWF I almost stood on a heap of Adders!!! At first I thought it was one huge snake and then I realised there were 4 of them!! I have never seen an adder before. Mark tried to find me one and Andy tried and a few others but always without success. It is a shame that I couldn't get a clearer view of them but there wasn't much I could do about that:

Initially I startled them and they quickly slid away but I stood stock still for about 20 mins and they started to come out again. I was stood so still just a foot away from these snakes when this little mite scampered across my boot. I feared for his safety - I know nothing about adders or what they will/can eat:

I reckon there's enough snakeskin here for a handbag AND a pair of shoes

I am not even sure what gender these are or whether some are young ones. One seemed smaller, paler but well-marked. Something else for me to research!

I had just started to drive away from the site when up ahead a deer appeared in the middle of the road and just stood there looking from whence she came. I slowed to a stop expecting her mate to appear feeling slightly worried as I saw a car approach from the opposite direction. Thankfully he too drew to a standstill and as we watched two of the tiniest little fawns I have ever seen ambled up to her and she led them to the other side. I have never seen a doe with twins before - if only I could have got a shot but my camera was in the boot We both slowly drove past smiling as we went

[Wurzel]

Brilliant shots of the Adders Pauline It coud be that they've gotten caught out by the sudden drop in temperature - from 30 down to 18 - so have gone a bit torpid?

Have a goodun and stay safe

Wurzel

[Pauline]

I was so excited Wurzel. I thought they were lone creatures but I am learning all the time.

I'm afraid I can't let this collection issue drop. It is not just in my area it is happening and although some of these guys appear to be friendly I have been told they can turn quite nasty and I have been advised to ensure my personal safety. Perhaps being female is an advantage as it may be that I am perceived as less of a threat and they are prepared to chat to me. Some folk who know it goes on have the attitude of 'what can you do?' Many folk who don't know about it are quite shocked to learn but often have the same attitude. For those on this site that do not fully appreciate what some of these collectors are capable of I enclose part of an email I received last night. If you look at that link they recommend wringing the necks of songbirds to prevent them eating the larva! I'll not say who it was from as I forgot to ask permission to publish:

https://hathawaysofhaworth.wordpress.co ... f-horrors/

Interestingly I met one of other collectors yesterday - he is always with his wife who carries the bag and he has the long pole for the net - very affable - he drives a black Audi TT - he was there last year too. He may be the chap involved with Wrecclesham glanvilles?

Currently, without much backing in law, any kind of successful deterrent is very much dependent on how far the landowners are prepared to go but you've got to give it your best shot, haven't you? I'll let you know how I get on.

[Pauline]

I'm struggling to get my head round this so if I have misunderstood anything I hope someone who knows better will tell me. After a couple of hours reading and research it would seem that these collectors really are NOT doing anything illegal - at least not openly. So, apart from 6 species of butterfly which are totally protected (and that doesn't include PE) they can continue to collect as long as they do not sell it on. This means that a collector can take an Empress, get 200 eggs from her and then sell these on legally as they are now considered 'captive bred'. He can then kill and pin the female and sell her on as one of his captive bred stock and who will know the difference.

Looking at the 1968 Theft Act he is not even carrying out an act of theft. Although wild creatures are considered to be 'property' taking one does not appear to constitute theft unless that creature has already been taken into possession. In this case I assume if you collected butterflies and put them in a butterfly house and someone stole them then that would be theft. Apparently local byelaws can be passed by the National Trust and Government Conservation agencies (eg Natural England) but I can find no evidence of such in the Alice Holt area. I have had an email from Alice Holt and they still intend to phone me to discuss this but in the current situation I fail to see what they can do when it all appears legal.

So, without any form of licencing there is no way to regulate how many folk take butterflies and no control over the numbers they take and no checks on premises to see what happens to them afterwards. As well as the PE the guy at Alice Holt also collected all the Hairstreaks and WA (and that is just what he told me about). He also told me he used MO's website to see when the egg-laying had started to save a wasted journey. Why is this sort of sensitive information not being withheld? Why is licencing not being introduced? Will it only happen when it becomes apparent that such activities are having a seriously detrimental effect on the butterfly population - a bit late then I would think. Should this situation be changed? How can this situation be changed? Who should be taking the lead? I will continue to think about this but I would love to hear other views as I feel very alone out here.

[Goldie M]

Hi! Pauline, you hit the jackpot with the Purple Hair Streaks your photo's are lovely

I'd be careful with the Adders though, when I visited Foulshaw Moss in the lakes you were told to Keep to the board walks and whilst we were there we saw one just off the board walk,( that was a couple of years ago.)

Reading your posts about the taking of Butterflies, I can't see that's legal, I thought all these practices went on in Victorian times It does seem that BC wants people to obey the law, but they don't say what will happen if people are caught breaking it!!

I'm eager to know if those you reported the man to will get back you, then may be you'll get more info. Goldie

[David M]

Always a tricky question is this.

There are six UK species afforded full protection, although one, Large Copper, is not actually native: https://www.ukbutterflies.co.uk/webpage.php?name=law

It would be nice to see a few more on that list as I believe there are quite a few that deserve to be.

Even then though, a net-wielding individual could claim to be capturing species not on the protected list, so is it time to do what Spain does and ban nets? That wouldn't really help too much with Purple Emperors, as when they're feeding you could literally go over to them and pick them up with your fingers, so totally engrossed are they in what they're doing.

Additionally, those with nets tend to operate in clandestine fashion. I was talking to one of the rangers at Daneway last week and he told me two had been stopped this year. Apparently they get suspicious if anyone turns up on the site either very early or very late, as this is not suggestive of those who have simply come to enjoy the butterflies.

The alternative would be for the owners of individual sites to forbid any taking of flora and fauna irrespective of whether it is protected or not. It's their property so they can do what they like but without surveillance determined individuals will no doubt still operate.

Another alternative would be to outlaw all trade in certain species, but then you risk driving it underground making the venture even more profitable.

Please let us know what Alice Holt have to say regarding your recent experience.

[Pauline]

Thank you Wurzel, Goldie and David for your comments and views - much appreciated. I shall continue working on this issue 'off line' but just want to make it clear that I don't have a problem with netting butterflies for valid reasons (eg identification) and where the butterfly is unharmed and released quickly. I don't have a problem with butterflies being collected for valid reasons (eg. re-introductions). I do however, think these activities should require a licence and be properly regulated. I DO have a problem with butterflies being collected for commercial gain - and there is the issue. Without an effective licencing system, properly regulated and backed in law how can you tell the difference. Today I met another collector at Alice Holt. This one was from Farnham and he told me he had successfully paired 12 female PE this year and had hundreds and hundreds of eggs. I asked him if he sold them and he said there was no demand???? Definitely wasn't admitting to the commercial bit. I said they must take up a lot of room and time but apparently he keeps them in small sleeves in the garden. He says he releases a few back into Alice Holt to make up for the ones he takes. If he doesn't sell the others .......? Apparently he also sometimes takes eggs. He tells me he is going to be back there at 12.30 tomorrow as he only just missed getting a female PE a bit earlier (on a back track close to the car park). I could go on but I won't. I hope you understand why I find this upsetting.

Whilst up there today I took some shots of other butterflies so I'll just post them and be gone:

Oh yeah, and the adders are still there. They have this peculiar thing about curling up on top of one another - perhaps it's a temperature thing:

[Wurzel]

Crickey Pauline I had to go and get my sunglasses to view that Holly Blue Looks like it fancied itself as an Adonis

Have a goodun and stay safe

Wurzel

[Pauline]

Cheers Wurzel - he is pretty stunning isn't he

A quick update on the Dukes. Now in 3rd and 4th instar they are eating me out of house and home - literally. Rather than those delicate little peppering of holes that the leaves incur in early instars, whole leaves are now reduced to a mere skeleton in several hours. I am having to dig up new plants for them daily (from my garden I haste to add). It surely can't be long before they begin to pupate - at which point I can breathe a sigh of relief. They have also become masters of camouflage making them difficult to locate. They are not always found on the plant but often hidden in leaf litter or cleverly hidden in moss. All this makes photography difficult as I am loath to disturb them once I can actually find them. If perchance they are to be found on a leaf the slightest movement causes them to fall off so I am reluctant to take many pics at the moment. However, a few I have taken in recent days below:

[Goldie M]

Your'e doing well with the Dukes Pauline, eager to see them as Butterflies.

I agree with you about the licensing, it would stop a lot of these collector's, you sound to be meeting a lot of them which isn't good. Let's hope some things done and the land owners clamp down.

Lovely shots also of the SWF, HB, love the open wing shots. Goldie

[millerd]

Those Duke caterpillars are splendid little beasts, Pauline, almost like little cacti with their rosettes of spines. How are you going to overwinter the pupae? I imagine there's a risk of them emerging this summer (which may possibly happen in the wild following the early spring).

Dave

[Pauline]

You're very kind Goldie. I'll update you soon

Today has been a tough one for various reasons so I didn't get out until about 3.30pm and the weather wasn't great. Showery, quite windy but a few sunny spells. I was surprised how many butterflies were about including this gorgeous fresh Peacock:

I was also delighted at seeing a Small Tortoiseshell - only the 2nd I have seen this seaon so I made the most of it taking a lot of shots:

As the ST made its way to some fresh thistle it was caught by the wind and somehow lost control. A different sort of sequence:

It was all over in about 90 secs as the poor little Tort was dismembered wing by wing until only one wing was left and the antennae falling away in the last shot as the Dragonfly munched through the last of the body parts. First time I have seen this and hopefully the last. A stressful day in more ways than one!

[Goldie M]

That was horrific Pauline, I've seen huge Dragon Flies at Gait Barrows chasing the High Brown Fritillaries and the Fritillaries trying their best to out fly them I've never seen one caught like that though!!!!UGH

I've blamed these huge DF for a loss of some of the Butterflies at GB but what can you do it's nature.

Awful weather here at present, when the rain stops it's mostly been late in the day, so no Butterflies for over a week now Goldie

[Pauline]

I felt almost guilty M. as I had been taking shots of the poor ST not realising it was enjoying its last supper. I hope my 'interference' didn't affect its behaviour in any way but I think that strong wind was more to blame and those Dragonflies are powerful fliers. Haven't even had a chance to look up what sort it is. Today I have taken some really lovely photos that I am very pleased with so hopefully that will provide some balance.

Hi Dave. Thank you. To answer your question I hadn't even thought that far ahead - not wanting to count chickens as they say (or should that be larva). I am quite paranoid every time I introduce new food plants (which is happening quite a lot at the moment) in case a slug, snail or other nasty gets past my scrutiny. I have even taken to getting up in the middle of the night to check them! Honestly I know some folk keep pupa in the fridge but I have never done that and don't intend to. I shall try to find somewhere very safe but close to natural conditions. If they emerge this Summer so be it! I am also keeping an eye on the wild ones and am very happy that they are at the same stage as my reared ones.

[Pauline]

Yesterday I saw a beautiful fresh Brimstone in the garden and it occurred to me that perhaps at least one of my (wild/garden) final instars had made it through. It also reminded me to check the only one which had pupated on the plant. Sure enough it didn't look far off emerging. This is a shot of the pupa I took early this morning (I won't inflict the other 200 on you this time ):

I kept a close eye on it and once the sun warmed it up it emerged. It has been flying round the garden but the very strong wind (which has made photos very difficult) has caused it to take up refuge in the rockery and it is on the underside of a leaf as I type. I did take quite a lot of shots and have tried to hone these down but to properly appreciate the way in which it emerges requires a certain number:

Beautiful when this fresh:

It has been interesting watching its development from that egg laid way back in the spring on my tiny plant.

[Wurzel]

Really interesting sequence of shots Pauline I never realised how wide the abdomen is in proportion to the rest of the body - it looks positively huge

Have a goodun and stay safe

Wurzel