A UK Butterfly Calendar 2009

[Neil Hulme]

Happy Birthday Shirley,
Another possibility is that people could submit votes for their favourite 13 (or a set, fewer number) photos throughout the whole term of the monthly/annual competitions - then simply pick those based on a cumulative points system. I say this because I don't think those photos voted as being 'best' are necessarily the most suitable for a calendar - to maximise sales we should perhaps consider a wider audience, rather than make a choice based on criteria used in judging our monthly comp. An example would be Gwenhwyfar's July 2007 Marbled White - an absolute stunner that only came joint second, but which to me is the perfect calendar shot. Some monthly winners (Gruditch's April 2008 Orange Tip, FISHiEE's winner this month) would definitely make the grade and are excellent 'calendar shots', but other winners far less so. I think we should pick with 'calendar shot' in mind, rather than be tied to a 'system'. This calendar idea is a very good one, which could potentially make a lot of money for a good cause, such as Butterfly Conservation, so I think we should do everything to maximise its broader appeal. If BC Branch websites were to provide an advertising link, I think it could do well financially.
Neil

[Tony Moore]

Good thinking, Neil. A wider 'butterfly' appeal to Jill and Joe Ordinary, and not too much of the arty-farty, should also make the enterprise more viable financially.

[Gruditch]

I really didn't want to get involved in this debate, because I can see sooner or later, toys going out of prams.
I agree with Kipper, if you are aiming to appeal to a wider audience than just the forum regulars, then to just sick with the comp pics would be a bad business decision. Plus the out of season themed comps don't offer much in the way of artistic merit, ( bunch of guys around a dog turd ). Also the comps can be a little dominated by Blues and Frits, and surly you should be looking for 13 different UK species.
I don't think its fair to ask Shirley to make the, who's in, and who's out, decisions on her own, I think a working party of the "trying hard to be tactful, in order not to upset anyone" more qualified members of the forum could be made up.
This years, and last years comps, plus the main comps, and the stock pics, should all be used as a resource, with of course the photographers permission.
And, I know Roger will agree with me, I would like to see not only the name of the butterfly, but who took it, where and with what, IE camera and lens, info.

Gruditch

[Denise]

I really didn't want to get involved in this debate, because I can see sooner or later, toys going out of prams.
I agree with Kipper, if you are aiming to appeal to a wider audience than just the forum regulars, then to just sick with the comp pics would be a bad business decision. Plus the out of season themed comps don't offer much in the way of artistic merit, ( bunch of guys around a dog turd ). Also the comps can be a little dominated by Blues and Frits, and surly you should be looking for 13 different UK species.
I don't think its fair to ask Shirley to make the, who's in, and who's out, decisions on her own, I think a working party of the "trying hard to be tactful, in order not to upset anyone" more qualified members of the forum could be made up.
This years, and last years comps, plus the main comps, and the stock pics, should all be used as a resource, with of course the photographers permission.
And, I know Roger will agree with me, I would like to see not only the name of the butterfly, but who took it, where and with what, IE camera and lens, info.

Gruditch

Good point Gary. I forgot about the dog poo one!
Well, you'll have to come up with some sort of commitee as it is not not fair as you pointed out, to leave it up to Shirley.
I totally agree with you.

Cheers
Denise

[Shirley Roulston]

I glad there's lots of idea's, Gary's idea of the details on the photo's, could that be a little too much information on the picture, perhaps on the first page each photo shown with all the details for the species of the butterfly plus the photographer and the camera details and on the back page the photos of the butterfly with the months. Also seasonal photos would be nice e.g Small Tortoiseshell for January and perhaps the Red Admiral for December. Please don't be too ambitous for going world wide except for 'Switzerland' of course, its not supposed to be a money making venture- that's next year 2010. Lets just sort the photos out nicely how hard can it be to choose 12 photo's, we've already decided on the front cover. Let me know Gary what you want to do! Shall I choose 12 photo's from the comp's over the last 12 months and see what I come up with or would you like to organise a commitee and then come up with 12 photo's. No toys involved here!, I don't do toys I just get on with it We are talking about calendar for 2009. Shirley

[Gruditch]

Hi Shirley, seasonal pics would be nice, but you would be restricting yourself from using some of the best pics.
Let me PM a couple of people who's opinion I and others respect, and see if they are interested in helping to pick the best images.

Gruditch

[eccles]

Some random thoughts:
I think there will be a little more to this than merely selecting competition entries and expecting them all to be good enough for the calendar. I suggest a larger short list involving a more detailed examination of hi-res versions of candidate pictures. A print is rather less forgiving than an 800x800 pixel picture for web viewing. It will also depend on the size of the printed image.
Shirley, will you be using A4 paper with the calendar on the lower half and picture on the upper half? If so, I suggest that a minimum hi-res image size should be around 2000 pixels on the longer side. Also, portrait format pictures will be difficult to accommodate so a preference should be for landscape format.

[Shirley Roulston]

The paper I use is A4 but always for butterflies or birds portrait because otherwise the subject would look rather flat, the subject has too fit more or less. I use the landscape mode for example a panoramic sea view and then these use loads more ink. The price of this type of calendar would certainly take a jump. When you talk of hi-res versions I'm lost I haven't a clue what your refering. I might be out of my depth now, what with gruditch and his committee and Mr. Kipper with his points. I really thought that a calendar would be so simple but apprently not.

[Pete Eeles]

Hi Shirley,

Don't worry about Gruditch and Sussex Kipper - they'll simply get you the photos as chosen by them and whoever they rope in to help them.

As for resolution - the point here is that you want the best-quality images that you can get. Most images on the web are completely unsuitable for printing, since they've lost a huge amount of detail that is in the original image (since it has been "compressed").

Out of interest - what software do you use to create the calendars?

Cheers,

- Pete

[Gruditch]

Worry not Shirley, it would be a lot easier if the calender was landscape, as only about 1 in 20 images are taken in portrait. Don't worry too much about the price, the quality is what matters.

Gruditch

[Pete Eeles]

Surely the calendar is portrait, but the photos landscape, with the photo being the top part of the page (as eccles says) and the actual month details in the bottom part of the page

Cheers,

- Pete

[Gruditch]

Gruditch

[Rogerdodge]

If I may make an observation.
The more people who are involved (i.e. those who have photographs incorporated) the more calendars you will sell.
To be frank, I will buy more calendars if one of mine is actually in it
"Dear Aunty Betty, Hope you like the calendar - I took the top one on the August page "
I would suggest, therefore, having four photos a page, and four on the cover, making 52 in all.
This will also have the benefit of allowing lower resolution images to be used, and alowing the P&S guys to have a look in.
52 is not far off the British List - so how about getting the best image of each species, with a limit of one per photographer?
That ought to be inclusive of just about every contributor on the site.
Just a few ideas to bang about...

Roger

[Denise]

Poor Shirley,

I bet your wondering what you started here.
I like your thinking Roger. From here on in, you shall be Diplomaticdodge.
Shirley, at the end of the day, you are making the calenders for us. Pete is the webmaster and has the final say. Everyone else is just trying to help, but too many cooks can spoil the broth. Go with your instincts.

If I can be of any help to you, just let me know, but I expect that you have enough help right now.

Denise

[Denise]

P.S. Happy Birthday Roger.

Denise

[Pete Eeles]

Shirley, at the end of the day, you are making the calenders for us.

Good point. I certainly sympathise with receiving so much input! So I suggest that you lay down the "ground rules" for the rest of us to conform to (i.e. layout, number of pictures, required quality etc.). Let's keep this as simple as possible.

Cheers,

- Pete

[Shirley Roulston]

The software I use is Seriff. If we were to use 52 photos it take the look of mosaic, we might end up cross eyed. Happy Birthday Roger, are you 52 to-day. Does anyone know where we go from here? Perhaps Mr.Eeles could say what he would like to do with His calendar on His web site, what he says goes, what ever it is. I have an idea he like to pack his suitcase and go back on his holidays! -

[Shirley Roulston]

Opps! Its a bit like a ball game. I would have got in first then I had to look how to spell mosaic.

[Shirley Roulston]

O.K I would like time to go to results of the competitions and look at the photos and then at the results and choose 12 really good quality photos and come back to you all with them. Is that any good.? No little faces this time. Could someone say o.k.

[Pete Eeles]

The software I use is Seriff. If we were to use 52 photos it take the look of mosaic, we might end up cross eyed. Happy Birthday Roger, are you 52 to-day. Does anyone know where we go from here? Perhaps Mr.Eeles could say what he would like to do with His calendar on His web site, what he says goes, what ever it is. I have an idea he like to pack his suitcase and go back on his holidays! -

Thanks Shirley - although I do prefer to think of this website as a "community project" I therefore think that this discussion is very useful and will help guide us, so I have no problem with it at all and appreciate all comments made.

However, at the end of the day, you're producing the calendar, and it seems to me that (based on the comments on this thread), we need 13 images, 1 for each month and another for the cover. I believe that Gruditch is coordinating this (and thanks G.! ). We'll then be relying on you to provide a layout that the contributors can comment on, before we (you!) go into production.

There will therefore, inevitably, be photographers whose photos have not "made it" this time around. But that's just the way it goes, unfortunately. If they don't buy any calendars because their photos aren't included, then so be it. I can't think of any way around this.

Cheers,

- Pete