Common Blue Question.

[roundwood123]

Its been a desperate summer for Blues this year in my part of Essex, [ Colchester area ], until yesterday when i saw Brown Argus and at least 50 Common Blues at Fingrinhoe Wick , so 2 questions;
1, Are second broods generally bigger than 1st.
2, Was this years 1st brood bad due weather or another reason. Steve

[roundwood123]

A question deemed not worthy of a response, oh well i shall look elsewhere for my Butterfly related questions in the future..
Thanks for all the help in the past.
Another lost Member.

[Padfield]

You blink and they're gone!

Living out of the country I didn't feel competent to answer a question about this year's UK blues. But now you put it like that, I will, and doubtless someone will correct me! Here are my thoughts:

No, second brood common blues are not necessarily bigger, though they can be. It depends on the weather. Last year, for example, vibrant first broods (here in Switzerland) produced millions of offspring but these larvae suffered from cold and rain and many (I think) went into pupation early or underfed (no shortage of vegetation but bad conditions for eating it). Thus there were a great many diminutive second brood blues around.

When I lived in Suffolk I noticed that second brood common blues were much commoner than first brood in coastal regions in particular.

Apparent numbers may mislead, because there is also a question of synchronisation. If 1000 butterflies emerge the same day there will be a glut of blues. If the same number of butterflies emerge over a month the density at any given time will be lower. Weather events can synchronise emergence. Here in Switzerland there can be a rapid transition from persistent snow to sun (in spring) or from chronic cold to extreme warm (our warm wind, the Föhn, can suddenly take hold) in summer. When such rapid transitions occur, hay fever sufferers usually notice first, as groups of plants suddenly produce pollen all at once. Butterflies that have been waiting for appropriate weather to emerge, and are beginning to feel it is getting late, may emerge all together too. This year certain Maculinea species here got their entire flying bit over in pretty well three weeks because June was miserable and suddenly we had great weather .

That's the end of my contribution. I haven't visited the UK in 2008 yet so I only know what I read here!

Guy

[m_galathea]

Steve, do you expect to have your questions answered within 24 hours on this forum? Not all of it's users will (or even can) check everyday. Please remember that it's not a public service.
Unfortunately I cannot help you with your questions.

Alexander

[eccles]

i shall look elsewhere for my Butterfly related questions in the future..

What an extraordinary response. Someone who has posted at an average rate of once every six days expects a reply in 24 hours! Did you not consider that those that visited the site in that time didn't actually know the answer?

[Rogerdodge]

i shall look elsewhere for my Butterfly related questions in the future

Blimey!
Talk about throwing your toys out of the pram.

Steve,
This is not a commercial site - no one gets paid.
You ask a question and it is answered by knowledgeable and experienced people giving up their own time free of charge, and willingly.
Even when beginners frequently ask questions that are really obvious to anyone with a modicum of knowledge, they are all answered with accuracy, and patience and politeness.
Your question was a very interesting one, and I had certainly been off looking stuff up before replying.
Perhaps others had too?
Might this be a reason for a delay?
You have had a very good answer from Guy, and I have no doubt that this will encourage other responses (for example I think you meant size as in quantity not size as in dimensions?).
Now you may well footle off, trawl the internet, and come up with a better resource than this one - but I very much doubt it.
I suspect you have had a bad day or a glass of wine too many or the missus has been giving you some gip. Whatever it is, please don't take it out on this forum.
Don't run away, stay and play - we are mostly quite nice - and very forgiving.
Roger

[Bryan H]

What a splendid, conciliatory post, Roger!

I'm afraid I come into the "glass of wine too many" category once in a while, and I apologise if I have caused offence to any on this forum.

Perhaps you should be the forum counsellor, Roger? I mean, it's not as if your photography is any good. Damn, I've done it again...

Bryan

[Cotswold Cockney]

Its been a desperate summer for Blues this year in my part of Essex, [ Colchester area ], until yesterday when i saw Brown Argus and at least 50 Common Blues at Fingrinhoe Wick , so 2 questions;
1, Are second broods generally bigger than 1st.
2, Was this years 1st brood bad due weather or another reason. Steve

Define Bad!

Just because you or any observer fails to see good numbers or even a few, that is NOT proof positive that they are not there and because it's bad year. Visit a butterfly habitat with a good population seen the day before on an unsuitable day, even if there is sunshine, is no guarantee that the same numbers or indeed any will be seen. So many other factors play a part.

One experience to illustrate a point. Back in the 1960s, on my one day off that July, I drove from London down to a wooded area on the Hampshire Wiltshire border. Soon after starting spots of rain became a steady downpour all the way to my destination. On arrival before noon I waited in the car with the large raindrops still noisily bouncing off the hood of my MGB. I searched the skies in all directions for some signs that things might improve. After about half an hour, the rain did stop but no sunshine. I got out of the car and walked towards a favourite spot with my shoes and trouser legs soaked within a few strides. Determined to see something I sat on a large log and lit a cigarette ( Once a heavy smoker, I gave up nearly thirty years ago ~ one of the best things I've ever achieved ) and was thinking of going home it was so miserable. No, walked on and as I did so it became a little brighter and warmer but without any direct sunshine. Then I saw what I had hoped to see: a male Purple Emperor flying quite slowly and low around a small oak ~ one of many left in a young conifer plantation. Within a few minutes, more appeared and over the next half hour, I saw more iris activity than one could expect to see over a few summers, let alone a single half an hour's observation. Most of the flights were at or a little higher than eye level because all those oaks were not yet old enough to be very tall. The effect being the forest canopy at a much lower elevation than is usually the case.

It was a sight I have not witnessed again despite spending much time in suitable habitats in Central and Southern England as well as abroad where they fly. The weather conditions on that remarkable day were such that they synchronised the activity of all the butterflies in that wood ~ they were around most of the small oaks in every direction I looked. Then, just as suddenly as they all appeared, all activity ceased.

That July was a poor one weatherwise. Had I cut my losses and returned home a few minutes earlier I would have missed that once in a lifetime experience. I would have also concluded that it was a very bad year for one of my favourite butterflies. However, I would have been very wrong. Assessing good and bad years is almost impossible. Far too many factors involved and a false impression can result when not in possession of all the facts.

EDIT:

I visited that same wood two summers ago. Those conifers were massive Douglas Firs now ~ one or two spindly oaks left standing and where the female Purple Emperors laid their ova on the Sallows, was a large bulldozed wasteland. No sign of my favourite British Butterfly and only one or two Silver Washed. Extensive woods a few miles way looked promising but, no time to check.

However, give it a few more years to recover and they will be back ~ as I have observed their return in other wooded areas managed in the same way over the years.

[roundwood123]

Thanks to everone for the replies, some of you obviously put in a lot of effort to answer my questions, and yes a difficult week and a few beer`s dont mix.
Can i have my toys back. Steve.

[Rogerdodge]

Welcome back.

Roger