Newbie question - is it ok to buy larvae for breeding?

[TurquoiseTranquility]

Hi,
I'm very much of a newbie in all things lepidopteran so could you wise folk please guide me
My little girl's birthday is coming up and I'm forever trying to reduce my consumer footprint, so... I've come across butterfly hatching kits sponsored by Buttefly Conservation like https://www.nhbs.com/title/199300/giant ... fno=215789 but they come with Painted Lady larvae which are neither native nor declining. I'm not sure if I should be helping proliferate a species which might already be benefiting from climate change?

So I thought, could I raise a native endangered/declining species instead and the only alternative supplier I could find was WorldWide Butterflies (http://www.wwb.co.uk/) who stock species like Garden Tiger and Small Tortoiseshell.

My concern is though, WWB have absolutely NO information on the sustainability of their stock, how/where they are collected or farmed, etc. I don't want to end up doing more harm than good!

So is it ok to buy larvae online? Or should I give up on the idea? Please help!

[Padfield]

Hi TT. Painted lady is the perfect butterfly for rearing if you intend to purchase livestock. It can be released without any potentially detrimental effect on wild populations or conservation projects. It is not native but is a regular migrant to the country and released butterflies will simply add to the influx from the continent. You should not rear and release sensitive or declining species except in cooperation and consultation with a conservation body, for three main reasons: a) if the species is not already present where you release the adults, you probably doom them to a futile existence; b) if the species is already present where you release the adults you risk introducing genes from an unknown source into the population, which might or might not be beneficial but at least risks contaminating the local gene pool (this is not necessarily bad but should be done with knowledge, by experts, not without); c) released adults risk falsifying observational data for the species.

An alternative to purchasing livestock is to search local nettles for small tortoiseshell larvae. These are easy to rear and if you collect just a few larvae, leaving plenty where you find them, you will not adversely influence the local population.

Guy

[David M]

Yes, Guy is right. Painted Ladies are essentially migrants so therefore pose the least risk as they always turn up in the UK in any given year.

Resident indigenous species are different though. It's risky to breed butterfly species that are not found in the area in which they are reared. You would be putting 'artificial' fauna into the local environment which is rarely if ever a good thing.

I too would recommend 'bagging' a few Tortoiseshell larvae (or Peacocks) locally if you can find them on nettle patches close to where you live. They're not that hard to find and by rearing them to adulthood you would merely be ensuring that a few more make it to the imago stage than would otherwise be likely if you left them.

[Vince Massimo]

I agree with Guy
Try searching sunny nettlebeds for Small Tortoiseshell larvae. I found this batch yesterday. Peacock larvae will be around soon as well.

Small Tortoiseshell larvae 5-May-2017

If you have no luck or start to run out of time, then you could go for a Painted Lady rearing kit.

Vince
(I see David just said the same)

[TurquoiseTranquility]

Oh thanks so much guys,
I'll try and look for larvae - I've got a few small nettle patches scattered around the garden, if no luck will try the local "wood" (it's tiny but plenty of nettles there). Shame I recently cleared some of my nettles without checking! It was literally a handful though.

Her birthday is 2 weeks away, if I can't find anything within a week or so, might get some Painted Lady. I've already bought a second-hand mesh hatching house on eBay, from an "official" kit.
Here's another question - should I wash/sterilise the house? I could do a laundry cycle with no detergent (although I do use vinegar in the rinsing cycle to soften the water) or maybe steam it like spuds?

Also, I can't seem to find any info on what plants the adult Tortoiseshell, Painted Lady or Peacock prefer? Of course I can't keep them in my garden forever but if they hang around for a bit after release that would just be icing on the cake! I've got a buddleia but it's lilac, I read somewhere recently that butterflies prefer pink buddleias because they are attracted to the red wavelength. I've also got some wildflowers but few have come up so far this year (apart from dandelions! )

Your pic's making me jealous Vince

[David M]

Also, I can't seem to find any info on what plants the adult Tortoiseshell, Painted Lady or Peacock prefer?

Adult Tortoiseshells, Peacocks and Painted Ladies will all nectar vigorously on almost anything purple in colour. At this time of year, if you've got Erysimum Bowles Mauve then that will do the trick.

Buddleias tend to only flower in late June so it will be a while before this nectar source presents itself.

That said, the butterflies will fly quite widely to find what they like, so if your garden isn't to their taste, they will decamp to find something preferable elsewhere!

[TurquoiseTranquility]

Thanks David,
I don't have any erysimum but will get some, thanks for the tip!
The only purple thing in flower right now are wild violets but they are nearly done blooming. It'll take a few weeks before any imagos emerge in any of these species though? Especially in this weather - it's barely gone above 10-12C since I can't remember when!
I have some purplish-pink and orange-pink alstroemerias, they should come into flower somewhere around mid- to late June. Also lots of purple campanula persicifolia. Apparently some butterflies do feed on both of these. Might get some wild poppies again this year, with luck, I did sow them.

[Vince Massimo]

Oh thanks so much guys,

Here's another question - should I wash/sterilise the (hatching) house? I could do a laundry cycle with no detergent (although I do use vinegar in the rinsing cycle to soften the water) or maybe steam it like spuds?

If you feel you need to sterilise the hatching house, then just use washing soda solution and rinse in clean water. Try to dry it in the sun if possible. You could also use sterilising tablets.

Good luck with your search

Vince

[ScottD]

The only down side to taking larva from the wild (assuming that you only take a few of those present) is the possibility that they may have already been parasitised & you end up hatching a wasp instead ... The Painted Lady kits from Insect Lore will have been bred in a sterile environment.
They also will come with a synthetic food rather than you having to constantly source nettle leaves for the larva.

[TurquoiseTranquility]

Right, well, so far the search for Small Tortoiseshell has been fruitless either I'm pants at this, or I'm looking in the wrong places! Is it possible they haven't hatched yet in my neck of woods (West Hertfordshire) because of the cold spring? Or maybe I'm in one of those areas where there are few of them left?
It hasn't been totally pointless though. I took my son to the local wood last Sunday and we found plenty of these little guys

After much googling I decided they are probably Nettle-Tap moth (Anthophila Fabriciana). Since then I found more of them on virtually every patch of nettles I've searched. They live in rolled-up leaves, on the upperside, typically one or two to a plant near the top

I'll keep looking for Small Tortoiseshell, but I'm not sure I'm going to find any now. Also still thinking of maybe getting a small batch of 5 Painted Lady... mainly because my 4-y.o. daughter is likely to be more excited about a colourful butterfly than a little grey moth My son's more easily pleased, he loves creepy crawlies

[TurquoiseTranquility]

The only down side to taking larva from the wild (assuming that you only take a few of those present) is the possibility that they may have already been parasitised & you end up hatching a wasp instead ...

Yes I thought that, but then that could be a lesson for my son who's old enough to be lectured on environmental issues Also, there's the hope that out of say, 6-8 wild catterpillars at least one will be healthy!

They also will come with a synthetic food rather than you having to constantly source nettle leaves for the larva.

Actually, I was going to dig up a couple of nettle plants and put them in the habitat. IMHO it's much more interesting (and more educational) to watch them grow on a foodplant rather than munching on some goo in a plastic pot

[NickMorgan]

TT,
You have received a lot of great advice above, which has covered everything I was thinking about. It is great that you ask the questions, rather than blindly buying a kit, or stock. This is something that I have been interested in for some time and I had the same thoughts as you. I don't want to do anything to upset the local populations of butterflies.
Personally, I would recommend buying one of the Painted Lady kits initially. As has been stated previously you would then hopefully receive healthy stock (I believe you have to order them separately after you have received the kit). Hopefully they would then survive through to adulthood and your daughter will have the delight of observing them and releasing them.
Each year I manage to find some eggs, caterpillars or chrysalises in the wild and attempt to rear the odd one at home. Despite my best efforts I have had fewer successes than failures. It would be a real shame for your daughter (and you) to discover a caterpillar that has erupted into little wasp cocoons, or a chrysalis that does nothing and you realise a small wasp has emerged from it!!
Once you have had success with the kit you can move on to some local species and hopefully have the joy of seeing them emerge into butterflies.

[TurquoiseTranquility]

Thank you Nick,
after another fruitless expedition to the woods, I agree, I'll now buy a small batch of Painted Lady. We'll keep watch of the moth caterpillars, too, since they seem to be everywhere round here - in fact, there are a few in my own garden! I'm just a bit baffled by the absence of Small Tortoiseshell but maybe I'm just not looking hard enough!

(I have to admit, I'm quite upset by just how few butterflies I see here summer after summer compared to where I grew up )

[ScottD]

(I have to admit, I'm quite upset by just how few butterflies I see here summer after summer compared to where I grew up )

I think that you will find that this is a common refrain amongst most, if not all, here ...

[BeeHappyFlutterBy]

Excellent thread really enjoyed the input and reading all the info. Look forward to reading the next chapter, Happy B'day wishes to your little girl too