Dingy Skipper, Grizzled Skipper and Small Blue

Matsukaze · Post by **Matsukaze** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:12 pm

There are small populations of these species near to where I live (north Somerset). Looking at the species profiles on the Butterfly Conservation website, it would appear feasible to encourage these species to breed/set up small colonies in gardens, as part of the local meta-population. Is this practical, and has it actually been done?

Post by **Pete Eeles** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:36 am

Interesting question. I'm sure this is possible if you have a large-enough garden, in the the right location (it's not in an isolated position where the adults cannot mix with the other populations), with the right conditions. However, I'm not sure if you'd still have much of a "garden" (in the traditional sense) left though

I believe that Peter Cribb, author of Breeding the British Butterflies (see http://www.wwb.co.uk/html/books.html) managed to keep a colony of Marsh Fritillary in his garden for many years.

Cheers,

- Pete

Perseus · Post by **Perseus** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:02 am

What is the food plant of this species?

I am not sure from observation. I think that both Bird's Foot Trefoil and Horseshoe Vetch (especially the latter) have different populations that may look identical but one of their characteristics is that their leaves do not support all their butterflies and skippers, who knows?

The point is that sowing foreign seed Bird's Foot Trefoil or the wrong sort may not actually support the butterflies.

This means that an experiment might be worthwhile. Secondly, it means haphazardly seeding and planting these two wild plants from dubiously sourced seed could very well bring the opposite from the desired effect as far as butterflies are concerned.

Not that it would cut any ice with the rangers and land managers I have met, some of whom cannot tell the difference between Bird's Foot Trefoil and Horseshoe Vetch.

Neil Jones · Post by **Neil Jones** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:05 pm

It isn't always popular to say it but tthere is very clear research that shows that butterfly introductions do not work well.

Peter Crib actually kept a capive breeding colony as I understand it this was caged.
Marsh Fritillaries are particularly well studies as subjects for introductions over 80 attempts are known and there is not one single long term success.

As regards metapopulations and establishing a colony in a garden the success depends on a number of factors. Whether a habitat patch functions as part of a metapopulation depends on ( inter alia) its connectivity with other habitat patches ( how close and accessible it is to other patches) the siexe of the habitat patch and the quality of the habitat in the habitat patch.

Perseus · Post by **Perseus** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:32 pm

Hello,

Locally, in Shoreham-by-Sea, Sussex, there has been a successful introduction of Small Blues.

Slonk Hill Cutting
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Slonk2005.htm

We have lost the Dark Green Fritillary and earlier we lost other species as well.

Adur Butterfly & Large Moth List
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Butterfly-list2005.html
Adur Butterfly Flight Times
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Butterflies1X.htm

Cheers

Andy Horton
glaucus@hotmail.com
Adur Valley (West Sussex) Nature Notes
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Adur2006.html
Adur Valley Nature Notes: January 2006
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Jan2006.html

Neil Jones · Post by **Neil Jones** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:19 pm

Where on the relatively quite few occasions when introductions have been successful they are often lycaenids so an establishement of a Small Blue colony Andd, may be possible. However what is the period your are talking about how long has the Blue been there since introduction. It is common for things to last a few years anfd then disappear.

Perseus · Post by **Perseus** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:32 pm

I am not about to make a point. I tend to agree with you in principle. In this case it is 35 years for the Small Blues on the Slonk Hill Cutting.

I think, in all probability, introductions are unlikely to be successful even with climate change.

The trend is with not sufficient detailed appraiisal that we will see the the continuing trend of wipe-outs. Chalkhill Blues are a common butterfly under serious threat in my opinion. The food plant Horseshoe Vecth is very common but declining rapidly.

pab999ulum · Post by **pab999ulum** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:11 pm

Glanville Fritillaries were established in n.somerset for over 20 years

Matsukaze · Post by **Matsukaze** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:23 pm

Hi Pete,

However, I'm not sure if you'd still have much of a "garden" (in the traditional sense) left though

My wife-to-be already complains of this...

Anyhow, I'd worked out the skippers' requirements as being foodplant, nectar sources, bare patches to bask (flower-beds? paving?) and shrubs/bushes in which to roost; other than the foodplant, this isn't so very far from a typical garden. Perhaps it's not so very far from the brownfield sites where these species live, either.

I doubt I have the space in my present garden, but, one day...

Matsukaze · Post by **Matsukaze** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:35 pm

Hi Andy,

Interesting site you have there, and interesting comments on the different sources Horseshoe Vetch too. Can see how this might be a problem for its dependent butterflies. I thought that sourcing of wildflower seed for habitat creation has become more of a consideration - how true is this?

How is the Slonk Hill cutting grazed, if at all? Could the appearance/shape of the vetch be determined by the extent to which it is grazed?

Perseus · Post by **Perseus** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:45 pm

Thanks for showing the interest, last post.

No the Slonk Hill Cutting site is not grazed and never will be. There is no grass, not fertile enough, too dry or not enough soil (if any).

The Horseshoe Vetch grows more upright. But the most pertiment thing is that there is no Chalkhill Blue Butterfly. A few Adonis that is all.

Prostrate Horseshoe Vetch grows on Mill Hill and we know categorically without doubt it has not been grazed for 68 years and probably never in a meaningful way and then by sheep probably 200 years ago.

So the prostrate form of Horseshoe Vetch was not caused by grazing. It was always a very silly idea anyway. It is the low fertility and dry nature of the soil that may contribute to the prostrate form. Search for moisture or nutrition is one guess of mine.

My conclusion drawn, on inadequate evidence is that for both Horseshoe Vetch and Bird's Foot Trefoil the chemical content plant varies in different locations, whether it is environmental (my philosophical tendency) or genetic is open to question. The exiguous evidence (against my philosophy) points to genetic differences.

As far as rearing butterflies is concerned the stock of the favoured food plant will make a difference. Whether they are called a different species is open to the definition of species. I have got a contact, but the chemicals in both Bird's Foot Trefoil and Horseshoe Vetch are known to vary. Why is not known (to me).

Perseus · Post by **Perseus** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:12 am

PS: it is quite interesting how I came to the conclusion of foreign seed sources.

I am not an expert on by plants by a long way and I had difficulty in identifying a comment plant like Salad Burnet. I then discovered by a posting on UK Leps or UK Botany that the Salad Burnet was a foreign variety. And I then assumed that the souce of the other seeds like Horseshoe Vetch and Kidney Vetch was foreign as well. Nobody kept any records so I am still not sure.

Bird's Foot Trefoil is all over the place. This unlike Horseshoe Vetch can be established more easily. However, I am not sure that all of these plants support populations of the Common Blue Butterfly and the Burnet Moths.

Perseus · Post by **Perseus** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:24 pm

Matsukaze wrote:Hi Andy,

I thought that sourcing of wildflower seed for habitat creation has become more of a consideration - how true is this?

On the one occasion I queried the source, the well known and recommended supplier could not provide the information regarding Horseshoe Vetch and became indignant when I asked. The flowering time was over a month out. I suspect the seeds were not even English.

In short, the local provenance seeding is probably not done properly at all. The plants are just grown in nurseries.

Horseshoe Vetch may be several different species, depending on your definition of what constitiutes a species. It probably doesn't matter with the widespread Adonis, but it does with the Chalkhill Blues.

eccles · Post by **eccles** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:21 pm

How about small blue? These colonies are usually very localised so might a small sheltered south facing garden be ok? What about soil PH for the foodplant, kidney vetch?

Matsukaze · Post by **Matsukaze** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:02 pm

Kidney vetch will germinate and grow happily in ordinary garden compost, and has grown to huge size in the flower-beds in my garden (which was highly "improved" pasture a couple of years ago before being built on). My garden tends to the alkaline, but not as much as the plant's usual habitat. As a resident of an ex-mining area should, I am experimenting with growing it in (acidic) colliery waste; bird's foot trefoil grows happily on the stuff.

I think kidney vetch gets crowded out by other species as they establish, which is why it ends up being confined to disturbed land and places with thin soil. This need not be a problem in the garden where any competition can be weeded out.

I have been growing kidney vetch in a couple of patches, one in the garden, one in a terracotta trough; in both the plants have done well and flourished, proving quite popular as nectar sources with the bumblebees. My garden is probably too shaded for the small blue, but I live in hope; maybe I will persuade someone with a better-suited garden to give it a try.

Dingy Skipper, Grizzled Skipper and Small Blue

Dingy Skipper, Grizzled Skipper and Small Blue

Marsh Fritillary

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