PE - how to get double purple wing?

[dilettante]

I posted this shot in my diary recently:



Despite spending a lot of time with this specimen on the ground, I didn't get any shots with both wings purple. Is it just a matter of luck / expert timing, or is there something more I could have done? He mostly sat with wings closed, but did a fair amount of wing-flicking and occasionally walking with wings wide open. But even then, I'm not sure the wings were completely aligned so I doubt there would have been any angle where the purple was visible on both wings simultaneously.

Any hints? (excluding photoshop )

[PhiliB]

I don't think there is anything you could have done Paddy.
The only time that you will get all 4 wings purple is when the butterfly holds its wings in a flat plane, i.e. so that all the wings are at the same angle to the source of light.

You will see what I mean from these shots.

Phil

[dilettante]

Thanks Phil. I don't know if I feel better or worse now seeing those fantastic pictures

[David M]

I bumped into PE aficionado Neil Hulme at Botany Bay a couple of years back, and I seem to remember him saying that you had to get above the butterfly looking directly down (he'll correct me I'm sure if I'm wrong). I suppose if the wings are held flat at this point, then you aren't creating an angle with your camera positioning and the purple scales will be visible all over.

[MikeOxon]

The colour is due to diffraction of light by fine grooves in the scales on the wing. The structures are actually rather complex but there is a good description at this website http://www.microscopyu.com/articles/pol ... intro.html To see the colour, the incident light (from, say, the sun) has to strike the wing at a particular angle AND the observer has to view the wing at a particular angle. These angles have to be the same for both wings but you don't necessarily have to be directly above the butterfly as these pics (from Bernwood in Oxfordshire) show. They were taken quite late in the afternoon, when the sun was getting lower, so this may also have lowered the optimum viewing angle.

Bernwood Forest, Oxon - 19th July 2012
Nikon D300s with Tamron 90mm macro lens - 1/350s@f/6.7 ISO800

Bernwood Forest, Oxon - 19th July 2012
Nikon D300s with Tamron 90mm macro lens - 1/180s@f/9.5 ISO800

I think your best chance is to stay close to the centreline of the butterfly, so that the angles of the light rays are the same from both wings. If you move too far to the side, it will only be possible to see the purple on one wing

Mike

[PhiliB]

I bumped into PE aficionado Neil Hulme at Botany Bay a couple of years back, and I seem to remember him saying that you had to get above the butterfly looking directly down (he'll correct me I'm sure if I'm wrong). I suppose if the wings are held flat at this point, then you aren't creating an angle with your camera positioning and the purple scales will be visible all over.

The PE in this shot was at my my shoulder level when I took the picture.

Thanks Phil. I don't know if I feel better or worse now seeing those fantastic pictures

Paddy, that's kind of you to say so but if you get yourself over to Fermyn Woods during the first half of July the Purple Emperors will be queuing up for you to take similar shots.

[David M]

That's quite an effort, Phil, although the purple on the forewings isn't as intense as on the hindwings.

[dilettante]

So for both the 'angle of light = angle of observer' and 'look directly down' rules to apply, you'd have to use flash perhaps?

[Mark Tutton]

Hi all
Neil also pointed me in the direction of carefully positioning yourself directly over the butterfly and preferably in diffused light, I have used my shadow in these ones taken at Fermyn. No photoshop honest
Kind Regards
Mark

[David M]

Thanks, Mark. I didn't imagine it then?

Those images are proof positive of the benefits of getting directly above the butterfly to ensure that the purple is visible on the entirety of the forewings.

[Neil Hulme]

Hi all,

It isn't essential to get directly above an Emperor to get 'all purple', but an element of luck/skill/stealth is involved in achieving this without doing so. If the photographer was standing in only a very slightly different position for those angled 'all purple' shots, the results would be very different.

However, getting above the insect while it's flat will ensure that you do get the desired results, as below. Under diffuse light conditions (see my third image), the purple becomes more intense. However, any purple is good purple! No flash required or advised.

BWs, Neil

[David M]

Thanks for the commentary, Neil. Apart from Matthew Oates, I doubt there's anyone with greater knowledge of the habits of PE in the UK.

[bugboy]

Nothing like a thread like this to make me with envy at all those amazing pictures. Interesting to read about using ones shadow though. I would have braved nettle beds and bramble thickets to avoid casting my shadow over the object of my desire if I had stumbled across one this year!

[dilettante]

Many thanks everyone. Hopefully I'll get a chance to put this new knowledge into practice sometime in the future.

[David M]

By sheer coincidence, one of Neil Hulme's Emperor images is on the BBC website today, along with a highly interesting report:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33596341

[EricY]

Purple Emperor male 9.20am taken kneeling on one knee

I have been away for a few days & missed the start of this thread. My attached photo taken @ Fermyn was at 9.20am & I was on one knee to get it. Therefor I assume the angle of the sun to the lens was somewhere between 90-120 degrees, quite different to those taken directly above the subject. Eric

[Aughie]

It seems that due to the way the scales on the male purple emperors wings refract light that from certain angles the purple colour becomes invisible. This effect therefore was not a camera problem. I see this is the butterfly which was chosen to be representative of this site. Where in the country would you be most likely to see one?

[bugboy]

It seems that due to the way the scales on the male purple emperors wings refract light that from certain angles the purple colour becomes invisible. This effect therefore was not a camera problem. I see this is the butterfly which was chosen to be representative of this site. Where in the country would you be most likely to see one?

http://www.ukbutterflies.co.uk/distribu ... ecies=iris

Established oak woodland with a good supply of Sallows for the larvae is the classic habitat.

[David M]

Fermyn Woods near Corby, Northants, is widely accepted as being the premier location to see this iconic species, Aughie.

[NickB]

Black version of this abs from 2011....

Again, Fermyn is THE place to go

Neil before your God.....