www.ukbutterflies.co.uk

I always have a problem with these, as I don't encounter them frequently enough (except for malvae, which occurs close to home) to get a feel for their habitat preferences, flight pattern, preferred nectar sources etc. I also find it quite difficult to get photographs of the underside, as the attached proves.

All were taken in the Vercors region of France in the last week of June 2017 at altitudes of somewhere between 800m and 1700m or so.

I'm dividing this into two as I have quite a few photos, but my first stab at this first batch is that they may all be armoricanus (Oberthur's Grizzled Skipper).

As ever, all opinions welcome.

Thanks, Rupert

Hi Rupert, these are tricky without an underside and apart from #1 I'm not confident that any are Oberthur's.

Are these five different individuals?

Hi David

That's a very good question. From the timings of the photographs, the top two are definitely the same individual, the middle two different from the top two, but may be the same insect; and the bottom two, different from the others, but may be the same as each other, if that makes sense. In other words, at least three different insects. The bottom one is actually showing some underwing (clutching at straws ...... .

Thanks, Rupert. I see quite a few Oberthur's every spring in the French Pyrenees and their upperside hindwing markings are always quite pronounced.

The species I'm familiar with that have obscure uph markings are Large Grizzled Skipper (alveus) and Olive Skipper (serratulae). I believe your final four images are more likely to depict one of these rather than Oberthur's, although Roger/Guy may chime in at a later date as both have far more experience with French pyrgus than I.

OK, thanks for your observations so far. Let's try a few more. I had these three down as carthami (Safflower Skipper). Once again, uppersides only, I'm afraid.

What does anyone think?

Thanks, Rupert

I agree, part-timer. All three look good for carthami.

Thanks again, David.

Now the final batch. The top two may or may not the same insect. I believe the second is red-underwing skipper spialia sertorius and the first may be as well.

The other two are foxing me. The combination of bold forewing and obscure hindwing markings makes me wonder whether they are Foulquier's grizzled skipper pyrgus foulquieri but I'm sure there are other possibilities such as alveus, serratulae and even andromedae to consider. I don't know whether foulquieri is known to occur in the area.

Once again, any thoughts welcome, acknowledging that it may be a tall order to identify these from upperside only.

With a considerable degree of certainty, I'd say your first two images are of Red Underwing Skipper.

Sticking my neck out, I'd plump for Large Grizzled Skipper for your latter two, although without an underside, it's difficult to be sure.

I agree with David. The options for the Pyrgus are alveus and serratulae and the former is a very strong favourite. Serratulae can be very variable and is widespread, but these have the look and feel of alveus.

I would be certain that they are not foulquieri, given that they are males, and highly unlikely to be andromedae. Both of these species are quite distinctive and highly localised.

Andromedae does not occur in the Vercors: http://diatheo.weebly.com/pyrgus-andromedae.html

The Vercors is generally a very rich area. In the past I have made many trips to the Col de la Croix Perrin and Col de St Alexis.

It was also a major centre for the Maquis in WWII. The memorial at Vassieux-en-Vercors is a chilling reminder.

Roger

Thanks once again to both of you. We hadn't visited the area before , but we really enjoyed our stay and recorded 70-odd species in 10 days or so - many of which have been identified with the help of this forum.

We did visit the memorial in Vassieux - as you say a reminder both of the bravery and brutality of war.

We're planning to visit the Pyrenees in late June next year, staying in Luz Saint-Saveur, so any tips on good areas to visit much appreciated.

Regards, Rupert