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Small weakly-marked skippers seen at Arolla in the Valais, SW Switzerland, at the beginning of August 2017. They were in flowery, wooded riverside vegetation. Warren's skipper? I'd be glad of help on this.

Small, but how small? Warren's is noticeably smaller than the average Pyrgus.

On what can be seen, these look right for female Carline.

Roger

Thank you, Roger. Much appreciated.

Warren's skipper is a tricky one. It typically occurs at high altitudes on exposed and barren slopes where many other Pyrgus species are dimunitive and weakly marked (small alveus are a particular distraction!). Arolla is not far from it's strongholds near Zermatt but these would nevertheless be new records if confirmed, so caution is advised.

For what it's worth, I agree the last four look most like carlinae. The undersides, in particular, don't look like warrenensis. The first one I'm not sure about. My gut feeling is not warrenensis but all parameters are within specs and without an underside I wouldn't like to say a definite no.

I go to Arolla most years, not least because of the good numbers of both pales and napaea, and will make a point of keeping my eyes peeled for warrenensis in 2018!

Guy

PS - here is what I think of as a typical warrenensis, with very sparse markings and rather pointy wings:

out of interest, why not serratulae for the first?

Kip wrote:out of interest, why not serratulae for the first?

I think that's a good suggestion. It doesn't ring warrenensis bells for me.

Guy

Your warrensis is quite distinctive, Guy.

I hope to search for this insect in the Queyras later this year. Is it always marked so faintly?

The warrenensis spots are small, discrete and generally about the same size. Not unlike a very small version of cacaliae.

Hardman's first seems to have too strong a cell spot for warrenensis and the curvature of the cell spot suggests carlinae to me, especially as the others are reasonably clearly carlinae.

David, you will know where to look in the Queyras - the puddling spot on the right just as you go into the car park usually has a selection of Pyrgus. I have seen warrenensis there, also andromdae and cacaliae, plus carlinae and alveus. You will probably need an underside shot as well as an upperside to convince the jury of warrenensis.

Arolla is a fabulous area - great for callidice, optilete, tyndarus, montana, mnestra, varia, palaeno, and many more elusive montane species. Mind you, last time I was there, I sat for two days in th Hotel Mont Collon in July as the temperature never got into double figures and it rained ceaselessly.

Roger

Roger Gibbons wrote:David, you will know where to look in the Queyras - the puddling spot on the right just as you go into the car park usually has a selection of Pyrgus. I have seen warrenensis there, also andromdae and cacaliae, plus carlinae and alveus. You will probably need an underside shot as well as an upperside to convince the jury of warrenensis.

Thanks, Roger. I know where you mean. I'll let the rest chase after Small Apollos while I get down to a good bit of pyrgusology!