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Red Admiral overwintering 2017-2018
Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:46 pm
by Vince Massimo
The purpose of opening this topic is to provide a location to collate overwintering sightings of the immature stages of the Red Admiral.
![IMG_5779-01G.jpg (455.15 KiB) Viewed 2955 times Red Admiral eggs - Crawley, Sussex 1-Nov-2017](./files/thumb_3678_34d97ddc022e4627ce07261dd23eb5a5)
- Red Admiral eggs - Crawley, Sussex 1-Nov-2017
![IMG_5384-01G 3rd.jpg (466.63 KiB) Viewed 2955 times Red Admiral 3rd instar larva - Crawley, Sussex 17-Oct-2017](./files/thumb_3678_c45c401311a7cb5ffe19003abbd6f2ed)
- Red Admiral 3rd instar larva - Crawley, Sussex 17-Oct-2017
![IMG_5769-01G.jpg (259.08 KiB) Viewed 2955 times Red Admiral larval tent - Crawley, Sussex 1 Nov-2017](./files/thumb_3678_45b2d6a0ba067c98b82bd1f1accc38c9)
- Red Admiral larval tent - Crawley, Sussex 1 Nov-2017
![IMG_0203-01G.jpg (307.6 KiB) Viewed 2955 times Red Admiral pupa - Crawley, Sussex 5-April-2017](./files/thumb_3678_abe2744c38cd9e99dd230ab20ac11f7f)
- Red Admiral pupa - Crawley, Sussex 5-April-2017
Every winter for the past 4 years, a few reports have been received of the Red Admiral managing to overwinter through its immature stages (ovum/larva/pupa). It does this by slowing its development and progression through these stages so that an egg laid in October can produce an adult in late April the following year. A typical example (from 2015) shows how this takes place:
Egg laid 9-Oct-2015
Egg hatched on 6-Nov-2015 (after 28 days)
First instar for 12 days (moult on 18-Nov-2015)
Second instar for 29 days (moult on 18-Dec-2015)
Third instar for 24 days (moult on 11-Jan-2016)
Fourth instar for 57 days (moult on 8-Mar-2016)
Fifth instar for 28 days
Pupated on 5-April-2016
Emerged on 18-April-2016 (after 13 days)
Total of 164 days from egg hatch to adult
Nettle beds with fresh growth in sheltered, sunny locations are the best places to find eggs and the shelters of overwintering larvae. In past years, egg laying has been recorded in November and even as late as 2nd December, mainly at sites on or near the south coast, but so far this year (October and early November) this activity has now also been reported on inland sites in:-
Sussex:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9571#p126074
Middlesex:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=6157&start=2040#p126205
Hampshire: report awaited (now received from Paul Harfield). See later post.
Hertfordshire:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9571#p126133
Lincolnshire:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9571#p126057
With so many sightings, this is a good opportunity to gather further data on this subject.
I will create further links to other significant reports as they are received or you can post your sightings directly here.
Vince
Re: Red Admiral overwintering 2017-2018
Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:55 pm
by David M
Excellent source of information, as ever, Vince.
I shall be keeping my eyes open for nettle beds throughout the winter!
Re: Red Admiral overwintering 2017-2018
Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:31 pm
by Paul Harfield
Great idea Vince
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
. Please see my latest diary posting
viewtopic.php?f=29&p=126273#p126273
Re: Red Admiral overwintering 2017-2018
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:15 am
by peterc
Yes, great idea, Vince.
Yesterday, I checked on the nettle patch in Knebworth Park where I found an egg last Friday (3 Nov) and found two more on one leaf. Will keep an eye on this patch throughout the winter and let you know of any significant developments.
ATB
Peter
Re: Red Admiral overwintering 2017-2018
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:44 am
by Vince Massimo
Thanks everybody. The important point is to monitor those egg laying sites to see how the larvae progress.
Paul - Sorry, I initially had you down as Wiltshire and awaiting data. Thanks for your latest post.
One other link to add from Bugboy who reported typical egg laying behaviour on the Sussex coast on 6th November.
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=8077&start=1480#p126224
Vince
Re: Red Admiral overwintering 2017-2018
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:48 pm
by bugboy
I also had some (probable) egg laying at Hadleigh Country Park in Essex on the 28th October. I wasn't able to check for eggs but the behaviour signified egg laying was occuring.
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=8077&start=1480
Re: Red Admiral overwintering 2017-2018
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:03 pm
by Pete Eeles
Vince kindly provided me with 4 eggs, 3 of which have hatched. I've attached a couple of photos that are both of a 1st instar larva. The change in appearance from newly-emerged to ready-to-moult is extraordinary, and something I've now observed in quite a few Nymphalidae (Glanville Fritillary had me very confused for quite some time!).
![IMG_6125.jpg (809.2 KiB) Viewed 2854 times Newly-emerged 1st instar larva](./files/thumb_3_10d16f0e65cf2aaef6818b9e2d72b721)
- Newly-emerged 1st instar larva
![IMG_6158.jpg (857.56 KiB) Viewed 2854 times 1st instar larva, pre-moult](./files/thumb_3_42ae143db7c78c0dc035b02327ad7ea7)
- 1st instar larva, pre-moult
Cheers,
- Pete
Re: Red Admiral overwintering 2017-2018
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:19 pm
by bugboy
Pete Eeles wrote: The change in appearance from newly-emerged to ready-to-moult is extraordinary...
- Pete
It certainly doesn't take them long to take on their trademark 'plump' look
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
Re: Red Admiral overwintering 2017-2018
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:52 pm
by Vince Massimo
Concentrations of Red Admiral eggs reported from Southwick (on 28th October) and Knowle, Hampshire on 11th November by Paul Harfield
viewtopic.php?t=6085&start=600#p126273
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=6085&start=600#p126423
![P1150071.JPG (719.14 KiB) Viewed 2785 times 10 Red Admiral eggs - Knowle, Hampshire 11-Nov-2017 (Paul Harfield)](./files/thumb_3678_5daabb7e70f1f218ca466d1553c4f5d6)
- 10 Red Admiral eggs - Knowle, Hampshire 11-Nov-2017 (Paul Harfield)
Vince
Re: Red Admiral overwintering 2017-2018
Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:38 pm
by Vince Massimo
Another large concentration of Red Admiral eggs found just over a mile from home. They were all on tiny plants growing tightly against the south-facing wall of a graveyard in Ifield, which is a neighborhood of Crawley. I counted over 100 eggs, with one diminutive sprig having 13 eggs on it. In the summer, this location was a hot-spot for Small Tortoiseshell and Peacock larvae and it looks like the nettle bed was strimmed about 8 weeks ago because the re-growth is still only very low.
![IMG_5865-01G.jpg (288.3 KiB) Viewed 2749 times Context of habitat of Red Admiral eggs - Crawley, Sussex 17-Nov-2017](./files/thumb_3678_bd48295d6cc8f9517e763b4ec3962260)
- Context of habitat of Red Admiral eggs - Crawley, Sussex 17-Nov-2017
![IMG_5860-01G.jpg (409.1 KiB) Viewed 2742 times 4 Red Admiral eggs - Crawley, Sussex 17-Nov-2017](./files/thumb_3678_2823b4ce30f89984493042550dd68118)
- 4 Red Admiral eggs - Crawley, Sussex 17-Nov-2017
Also today, a butterfly at a known over-wintering site for adults, just around the corner from home.
![IMG_5847-01G.jpg (184.6 KiB) Viewed 2749 times Red Admiral - Crawley, Sussex 17-Nov-2017](./files/thumb_3678_3a9eaf11444b9ca901ba9c08fea51c59)
- Red Admiral - Crawley, Sussex 17-Nov-2017
Vince
Re: Red Admiral overwintering 2017-2018
Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:35 pm
by Vince Massimo
A further visit to the cemetery wall nettle bed at Ifield, Crawley today found an egg-laying female (V1). She was observed to lay 3 eggs at around 12.30 and she stayed basking on the wall until 2.30.
![IMG_5880-01G.jpg (647.91 KiB) Viewed 2730 times Red Admiral (V1)(with eggs below) - Crawley, Sussex 19-Nov-2017](./files/thumb_3678_51977e0e1fb5598288f0f26ce130f375)
- Red Admiral (V1)(with eggs below) - Crawley, Sussex 19-Nov-2017
![IMG_5894-01G.jpg (603.59 KiB) Viewed 2730 times Red Admiral female (V1) - Crawley, Sussex 19-Nov-2017](./files/thumb_3678_8a44c226dee9083654888ca644e7a4bf)
- Red Admiral female (V1) - Crawley, Sussex 19-Nov-2017
A full count along the whole length of the wall produced 192 eggs, including one on a twig beneath a plant. On one tiny sprig were 7 eggs that could be hidden beneath a 2p piece.
![IMG_5929-01G.jpg (373.09 KiB) Viewed 2730 times 7 Red Admiral eggs - Crawley, Sussex 19-Nov-2017](./files/thumb_3678_5a944e3da1bab6fa7b37832b6720c80b)
- 7 Red Admiral eggs - Crawley, Sussex 19-Nov-2017
![IMG_5921-01G.jpg (308.26 KiB) Viewed 2730 times Red Admiral egg on twig - Crawley, Sussex 19-Nov-2017](./files/thumb_3678_4f11c8c0b08a2e8ce1aeedf8c8c2bb74)
- Red Admiral egg on twig - Crawley, Sussex 19-Nov-2017
Nearby were 3 further eggs, making a total of 195 for the day.
Vince
Re: Red Admiral overwintering 2017-2018
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:39 pm
by Pete Eeles
Vince Massimo wrote:A full count along the whole length of the wall produced 192 eggs
Nice work sir
Cheers,
- Pete
Re: Red Admiral overwintering 2017-2018
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:16 pm
by Vince Massimo
Thanks Pete. I was there again today, just to remove some litter and put down some apples for the butterflies. The wall has a total length of around 58m which is split into 17 sections, which makes my surveying easier. Upon checking three plants that I had previously photographed on the 19th, I found additional eggs on them. On that date I counted 20 eggs in section 1 and today there were 36, so the total is now well over 200.
![IMG_5891-01G.jpg (556.99 KiB) Viewed 2676 times One section of cemetary wall](./files/thumb_3678_aa82797f0881e8e5f628961efcea9072)
- One section of cemetary wall
![IMG_5932-01G.jpg (376.84 KiB) Viewed 2676 times 8+5 eggs on two plants - Crawley, Sussex 22-Nov-2017](./files/thumb_3678_f6cbf2ac84fc17004a4e22ab188724f7)
- 8+5 eggs on two plants - Crawley, Sussex 22-Nov-2017
I also disturbed a Red Admiral from the grass, but it was too windy and cloudy for any other activity.
Vince
Re: Red Admiral overwintering 2017-2018
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:32 pm
by bugboy
Fascinating thread. One would presume that the main cause of death (non human related) of these winter offspring would be vertebrate insectivore predation and weather related since any parasites/parasitoids would be hibernating. Or are some of them becoming more active in our milder winters
![Question :?:](./images/smilies/icon_question.gif)
Re: Red Admiral overwintering 2017-2018
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:06 pm
by Vince Massimo
bugboy wrote:Fascinating thread. One would presume that the main cause of death (non human related) of these winter offspring would be vertebrate insectivore predation and weather related since any parasites/parasitoids would be hibernating. Or are some of them becoming more active in our milder winters
![Question :?:](./images/smilies/icon_question.gif)
Hi Paul,
Apart from birds, I think preditors like slugs, snails, spiders and earwigs could still be active in the sheltered areas where these particular eggs are laid. In mild winters there would also be a problem with fungual infection. I believe that parasites and parsitoids should be less of an issue at this time of year, but have no data to back that up.
Vince
Re: Red Admiral overwintering 2017-2018
Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:52 pm
by Vince Massimo
Another visit to the cemetery site in Crawley produced 2 female Red Admirals (V1) and (V2) and one of them (V2) was observed to lay at least one egg at around midday.
![IMG_5938-01G.jpg (612.83 KiB) Viewed 2629 times Cemetery wall - Ifield, Crawley, Sussex 23-Nov-2017](./files/thumb_3678_457313ad1a82ec762c11c159a7ec1d32)
- Cemetery wall - Ifield, Crawley, Sussex 23-Nov-2017
![IMG_5943-B-01G Female.jpg (434.64 KiB) Viewed 2629 times Female Red Admiral (V2) - Crawley, Sussex 23-Nov-2017](./files/thumb_3678_448e483a4ae3569c07a57580a158a06d)
- Female Red Admiral (V2) - Crawley, Sussex 23-Nov-2017
The egg total continues to increase, but a full count was not completed.
The temperature was approximately 12C, but with a brisk wind.
Vince
Re: Red Admiral overwintering 2017-2018
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:49 pm
by peterc
The eggs I found today in Knebworth Park where I discovered some earlier in the month are now turning yellow-green.
ATB
Peter
PS Vince, I am impressed with your count
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
Re: Red Admiral overwintering 2017-2018
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:37 am
by Pete Eeles
I went out yesterday and, in the gales, found the constructions of 3 fully-grown first-instar larvae - two on the same plant (I prised the constructions apart to confirm ID).
There must be one heck of a lot of Red Admiral larvae about for me to be able to do that! Thanks, Vince, for the advice of looking wherever you've found Red Admiral larvae before!
Cheers,
- Pete
Re: Red Admiral overwintering 2017-2018
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:27 pm
by Vince Massimo
Well done Peter and Pete. Keep the observations coming
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
.
I was back at the cemetery site in Crawley today. The sun was shining, but it was only reading 7C, so I was a bit surprised to see a female Red Admiral who appeared at 12.25. She basked for a few hours but did not lay any eggs. From her markings, I was able to confirm that she (V1) was also seen here on 19th and 23rd November.
![IMG_5968-A-01G.jpg (497.82 KiB) Viewed 2556 times Female Red Admiral (V1) - Crawley, Sussex 25-Nov-2017](./files/thumb_3678_f3a882b5ebe94b2a6167237217f252d0)
- Female Red Admiral (V1) - Crawley, Sussex 25-Nov-2017
I completed a revised egg count, which was done over the course of two days, and the total now stands at 439 eggs along the length of the wall. Only a few are newly laid since the last count, so the others must have been there all along. I found that the eggs are easier to see if they are viewed in shade. Sunshine tends to make them blend into the leaf. Some are darkening-up in preparation to hatch.
![IMG_5976-01G.jpg (312.9 KiB) Viewed 2556 times 13 Red Admiral eggs - Crawley, Sussex 25-Nov-2017](./files/thumb_3678_afb3b0a2152fa9bf1b39972f274dec11)
- 13 Red Admiral eggs - Crawley, Sussex 25-Nov-2017
Vince
Re: Red Admiral overwintering 2017-2018
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:17 pm
by Vince Massimo
Another visit to the cemetery wall site in Crawley today found an egg laying Red Admiral (V2). She was there between 12.00 and 12.30 and was seen to lay at least 15 eggs, including one on an already overloaded sprig.
![IMG_5990-B-01G.jpg (455.47 KiB) Viewed 2540 times Female Red Admiral (V2) - Crawley, Sussex 26-Nov-2017](./files/thumb_3678_6b5abb27431fca56eda872ff994a3ad9)
- Female Red Admiral (V2) - Crawley, Sussex 26-Nov-2017
![IMG_6019-01G.jpg (333.38 KiB) Viewed 2540 times 14 Red Admiral eggs - Crawley, Sussex 26-Nov-2017](./files/thumb_3678_4fc6c7c3e99c338812a3c51115899811)
- 14 Red Admiral eggs - Crawley, Sussex 26-Nov-2017
The air temperature was 8C, but at the base of the wall it was measured as 14.7C.
Vince