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ID for a Pyrgus please
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:21 pm
by Chris Jackson
Hello,
Would someone like to have a bash at ID-ing this Pyrgus ?
Seen today in the South of France at 650 m alt.
Largish and placid (the Pyrgus, not me !).
Thanks,
Chris
Re: ID for a Pyrgus please
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:36 pm
by Chris Jackson
So,
Upperside fwd : widespread 'golden' scales
Upperside hind : no white markings
Underside fwd : dark post discal area
Underside hind : basal white heart-shape mark
= P. foulquieri ? Any objections ?
Thanks,
Chris
Re: ID for a Pyrgus please
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:15 pm
by Charles Nicol
Re: ID for a Pyrgus please
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:17 pm
by bugboy
they are synonyms for the same species
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
Re: ID for a Pyrgus please
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:42 pm
by Chris Jackson
Thanks for your pertinent link Charles. It looks good. And you are quite right Bugboy, we are on the right track.
Chris.
Re: ID for a Pyrgus please
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:33 pm
by Charles Nicol
bugboy wrote:
they are synonyms for the same species
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
hehehe grrrrrr
![Razz :P](./images/smilies/icon_razz.gif)
Re: ID for a Pyrgus please
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:19 am
by Padfield
Sorry - I thought I'd replied to this. I must have forgotten to click 'submit'.
In brief, I agree with bellieri as a strong candidate. This is a species I have very little experience of, as it doesn't fly in Switzerland, and in addition the books tend to offer less help for identifying females. But the one female I have photographed matches this individual well in most respects. She has golden hairs on the upperside, though less extensive than in this insect (and it should be remembered that females of many species can show this), a similarly reddish hue on the underside (more so than the male) and very comparable markings on both surfaces. I can't see any reasons for excluding bellieri - and I can find reasons, though not 100% conclusive, for thinking it is not one of the other candidates (onopordi, cirsii, armoricanus, alveus).
Guy
Re: ID for a Pyrgus please
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:39 am
by Kip
sorry in advance for being thick, but why not serratulae ?
Re: ID for a Pyrgus please
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:43 am
by Padfield
The underside excludes
serratulae definitively. I'm in a crammed bus on the way to
christi country right now, so more details later! It's an odd-numbered year, something that only comes round every two years
Guy
Re: ID for a Pyrgus please
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:59 pm
by Roger Gibbons
If it is a male (and I can't see the end of the abdomen clearly enough) then it isn't bellieri as it doesn't have the white hair tuft.
I'm also travelling, in the Pyrenees, trying to work out if I've just seen Erebia sthennyo (it would be a life tick, so ultra caution indicated).
Roger
Re: ID for a Pyrgus please
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:28 pm
by Padfield
I'm working on the assumption it's a female - which it appears to be. If it's a male, it's a new species!
Guy
Re: ID for a Pyrgus please
Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:10 am
by Chris Jackson
Hello All,
I should have started by listing the Pyrgus charted in this place on the border between the Var and the Bouches du Rhone : P. malvoides, armoricanus, cirsii, bellieri (foulquieri), onopordi, sidae and serratulae.
Thank you Kip,
I think the last 2 can be eliminated due to the undersides only.
Thank you Guy and Roger,
I'll put this down for the moment then as female P. bellieri.
Good hunting to both of you.
Chris