?alveus

[Kip]

I have this annotated alveus, from the Midi Pyrenees on 3rd August, at 1800m. Reading further, I see andromedae is also to be found in the Pyrenees, and I'm not sure it couldn't be onopordi. Sadly, no underside view.... I would be grateful for any comment on the accuracy of my attempted ID....

[Roger Gibbons]

I'll be rash enough to offer an opinion. I don't think it is andromedae as it doesn't have the characteristic three white dashes near the base of the forewing. I think it is highly unlikely to be onopordi at this altitude, and it doesn't look quite right for this.

It could be alveus, although the forewing markings look a little strong. This species is more problematical thanks to the existence of the alveus subspecies accretus which is more strongly marked, and occurs in the Pyrenees. So nominate alveus and ssp accretus are both possibles.

The only other candidate I could suggest would be serrratulae, although the forewing is rather heavily marked for typical serratulae, but some serratulae individuals can look like this.

Armoricanus could merit consideration but I would expect the hindwing to be more clearly marked for this.

This is just my gut instinct. As you surmise, Paul, an underside shot would have removed much of the uncertainty.

Roger

[Padfield]

I agree with Roger that this is not andromedae. In fact, the triple mark is not constant - I have seen many andromedae with just two, or even one - but the hindwing submarginal decoration is wrong (andromedae has what I think of as lace drapes). More than that I'm not rash enough (unlike Roger!) to say without an underside. In principle, I think you could add bellieri into the mix too. The books say this flies up to 1700m but I'm pretty sure I've seen it higher than this.

I don't suppose you have any similar insects from the same trip with a glimpse of the underside?

Guy

[Kip]

Sorry, been out of touch for a few days... thank you both for your views, I always learn much from what you both say.. I will have a look for undersides but I fear there will be nothing to post.