Holiday to France Part 2
Holiday to France Part 2
Despite a worry about a camera flash when approaching Mirepoix on the way home from Carcassonne (a hidden speed trap: I think I've changed my mind about French roads ) I had much more important things on my mind as Tuesday (25th) was the first morning I'd awoken to sunshine . Time to check out the big buddleia bush opposite the campsite. So while the others dozed I sneaked out full of excitement and expectation and taking big strides to make my way up to the spot. As I approached I could see large orange butterflies around the bush and when I got there I could see that they were Silver-washed Fritillaries Argynnis paphia. A male came down and landed on a palette box which gave me this picture.
As well as the SWF's there was a Peacock which I got a shot of later.
As things had gone quiet at the butterfly bush I crossed over to the grassy verge on the other side of the road and was immediately into a Large Skipper. But then another brown-orange butterfly caught my eye ...surely not? A Heath Fritillary Mellicta athalia, wings spread to catch the morning sun's warming rays . As I continued my search along the road scanning both sides of the roadside grass verges, I encountered more and more Heath Fritillaries. In fact they appeared to be the commonest species though by no means the only species. Small Copper Lycaena phlaes were also evident and a worn Sooty Copper Lycaena tityrus (my first lifer) put in an appearance. I then spotted another copper which appeared to be like a Small but browner and lacking the lustre of phlaes. The low level bright sunshine (and lack of camera craft) made the photography difficult. However I've since concluded that this was indeed just another Small Copper, a third generation form of (but no 'blue badges'). The heaths seemed to show a lot of variation. In actuality they weren't all Heaths as there was the occasional Glanville Fritillary Melitaea cinxia in there too . Also I later learned that there are three other very similar species to the Heath Fritillary in this region: these being the Provencal Mellicta deione; Meadow Mellicta parthenoides and False Heath Mellitaea diamina. I've since discounted the last species but I will post my other Heath pictures later. I'm hoping someone may be able to identify one or both of the other two species as being among them, if at all possible from a photo As well as the Frits and Coppers I spotted Small White Pieris rapae (almost certain not Southern Small P. mannii); Small Heath; Gatekeeper; a (worn) Long-tailed Blue; Wood (Real's Wood?) White and Map. Meadow Browns were common too, mostly female, slightly larger than the ones at home with a bolder underside eye-spot. Along paths, often in more shady areas they would take off from the ground and land about 6 feet ahead of you flashing their underside eyespot. As you walked up to them this would occur again and again until eventually they'd go past you and back to where they (presumably) started from.
from now on pictures are, as they say on Strictly "in no particular order" Another insect which caught my attention was a huge hornet mimic hoverfly which I knew wasn't the familiar Volucella zonaria seen back home. This is I think Milesia crabroniformis. And a final flourish: a Humming-bird Hawk-moth 14 species and counting. What a difference a bit of sunshine makes .
Phil
The others were a bit too high up and also flighty making it difficult to get decent photographs. After a few minutes my presence seemed to put them all up in the trees. A nice start but a species I've seen and photographed many times in the South East . A Cardinal would've been a better find.As well as the SWF's there was a Peacock which I got a shot of later.
As things had gone quiet at the butterfly bush I crossed over to the grassy verge on the other side of the road and was immediately into a Large Skipper. But then another brown-orange butterfly caught my eye ...surely not? A Heath Fritillary Mellicta athalia, wings spread to catch the morning sun's warming rays . As I continued my search along the road scanning both sides of the roadside grass verges, I encountered more and more Heath Fritillaries. In fact they appeared to be the commonest species though by no means the only species. Small Copper Lycaena phlaes were also evident and a worn Sooty Copper Lycaena tityrus (my first lifer) put in an appearance. I then spotted another copper which appeared to be like a Small but browner and lacking the lustre of phlaes. The low level bright sunshine (and lack of camera craft) made the photography difficult. However I've since concluded that this was indeed just another Small Copper, a third generation form of (but no 'blue badges'). The heaths seemed to show a lot of variation. In actuality they weren't all Heaths as there was the occasional Glanville Fritillary Melitaea cinxia in there too . Also I later learned that there are three other very similar species to the Heath Fritillary in this region: these being the Provencal Mellicta deione; Meadow Mellicta parthenoides and False Heath Mellitaea diamina. I've since discounted the last species but I will post my other Heath pictures later. I'm hoping someone may be able to identify one or both of the other two species as being among them, if at all possible from a photo As well as the Frits and Coppers I spotted Small White Pieris rapae (almost certain not Southern Small P. mannii); Small Heath; Gatekeeper; a (worn) Long-tailed Blue; Wood (Real's Wood?) White and Map. Meadow Browns were common too, mostly female, slightly larger than the ones at home with a bolder underside eye-spot. Along paths, often in more shady areas they would take off from the ground and land about 6 feet ahead of you flashing their underside eyespot. As you walked up to them this would occur again and again until eventually they'd go past you and back to where they (presumably) started from.
from now on pictures are, as they say on Strictly "in no particular order" Another insect which caught my attention was a huge hornet mimic hoverfly which I knew wasn't the familiar Volucella zonaria seen back home. This is I think Milesia crabroniformis. And a final flourish: a Humming-bird Hawk-moth 14 species and counting. What a difference a bit of sunshine makes .
Phil
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Re: Holiday to France Part 2
Hi Phil. I'm generally wary of identifying Melitaea sp. from ups alone - especially in the South of France, where some athalia ssp. celadussa can show a lot of the characteristics of deione. But your underside shot must surely be diamina (false heath). The dark in the p.d. orange spots is not so clearly defined as you might see in the books, but bear in mind that only a little further south, in the Pyrenees proper, form vernetensis flies, which typically lacks the dark centres. In contrast, ssp. celadussa of athalia (heath fritillary) has rather bright orange spots there.
The last heath frit, with the map, has a lot of parthenoides (meadow frit) about it, but to my mind it's not 100% conclusive. Sometimes heath frits do show a very oblique spot in s1b.
EDIT: Mmm... The female in the shot with two 'heath' frits looks very like a female meadow frit. I'd put money on that one.
Guy
The last heath frit, with the map, has a lot of parthenoides (meadow frit) about it, but to my mind it's not 100% conclusive. Sometimes heath frits do show a very oblique spot in s1b.
EDIT: Mmm... The female in the shot with two 'heath' frits looks very like a female meadow frit. I'd put money on that one.
Guy
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Re: Holiday to France Part 2
Lovely summer brood Maps, Phil. This is one species I don't see in the alpine region.
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Re: Holiday to France Part 2
Nice photos Phil.
They are reminding me of happy summer days which, even down in Marseilles as I write, seem to be getting further away.
I did a double-take on your Small White though. That dark apical patch seems to extend further down the trailing edge than I would have expected.
Photo No. 12 - Small Heath ?
Photo No. 13 - female Southern Gatekeeper ?
I love the Maps.
As David suggests, you can be in a great butterfly region, but it does not guarantee you that you'll necessarily see a Map.
I don't get these around Marseilles.
Cheers, Chris
They are reminding me of happy summer days which, even down in Marseilles as I write, seem to be getting further away.
I did a double-take on your Small White though. That dark apical patch seems to extend further down the trailing edge than I would have expected.
Photo No. 12 - Small Heath ?
Photo No. 13 - female Southern Gatekeeper ?
I love the Maps.
As David suggests, you can be in a great butterfly region, but it does not guarantee you that you'll necessarily see a Map.
I don't get these around Marseilles.
Cheers, Chris
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Re: Holiday to France Part 2
Re the Small White, I think a fork on the vein can just be seen, which would confirm Small and not Southern Small White. There are other clues, too.
The False Heath - the marginal band doesn't seem particularly yellow and contrasted which I would expect for False Heath, and the band seems rather narrow and regular. This isn't very clear from the photo, so maybe a close-up is needed. The unf lunule in s2 is also heavily shaded, which would normally be indicative of Heath. The unh post-discal spaces do look right for False Heath though.
Roger
The False Heath - the marginal band doesn't seem particularly yellow and contrasted which I would expect for False Heath, and the band seems rather narrow and regular. This isn't very clear from the photo, so maybe a close-up is needed. The unf lunule in s2 is also heavily shaded, which would normally be indicative of Heath. The unh post-discal spaces do look right for False Heath though.
Roger
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Re: Holiday to France Part 2
thanks for sharing your wonderful photos Phil.
the first one of the SWF on the pallet is very striking.
i have never seen Maps in the Midi
the first one of the SWF on the pallet is very striking.
i have never seen Maps in the Midi
Re: Holiday to France Part 2
Thanks for your assessments on the fritillaries Guy . I agree with your comments and as I suspected one is unlikely to get a conclusive ID from a photo alone although an underside combined with upperside is more helpful. There are more pictures to come and I said I have kept a few behind (of my ‘better ones’) for a separate best guess identity parade posting.Padfield wrote:Hi Phil. I'm generally wary of identifying Melitaea sp. from ups alone - especially in the South of France, where some athalia ssp. celadussa can show a lot of the characteristics of deione.
I have read on Matt Rowlings site that in the field genital determination of the males is a conclusive way to separate these closely related species , and in the hands of skilled operators does no harm to the insect (unlike moth gen dets). Is this a technique you would employ or do you rely solely on your knowledge of specific features, geographical locations, habitats, informed literature and behavioural cues etc?
I am very much a novice when it comes to species abroad and adopted a scattergun approach to grab as much as I could in the limited time available. If I was able to repeat the experience I might be less obsessed about the species totals and more inclined to focus some more attention on the difficult ones to ID. Anyway there are some more identification conundrums to keep you all busy further on in this series of postings .
Your comments about the diamina (and female parthenoides) came as a pleasant surprise . The underside markings of this insect were pretty bold (sadly that’s the limit of my knowledge on how to describe it ) and for me, the apex of the forewing stands out as looking somewhat different to the others (not that I’ve got many others from my holiday to compare with). I don’t remember seeing any fritillary with a heavily marked upper hind-wing and it was with this reasoning that I discounted diamina in my posting. I now know that the False Heath is very variable with respect to this feature, so it may be that I overlooked it . However, in general, I thought the Ariege small fritillary upper-sides were much lighter marked than I remembered seeing on the athalia in the UK earlier this year. And, what I would say is that these 'sunny day, out in the open French frits', were certainly harder to get near to than the athalia in the coppiced woodland at East Blean .
I checked my 'main book' Collins Field Guide Butterflies Britain and Europe (Tolman and Lewington) and the Map does not feature in the region I saw it. However the text and distribution maps were compiled in 1997 so the butterfly may have expanded its range since then. Perhaps I need a new edition of the book?David M wrote:Lovely summer brood Maps, Phil. This is one species I don't see in the alpine region.
Thanks for your kind comments Chris. I thought number 13 was a 'standard' female Gatekeeper Pyronia tithonus (hence I didn't bother naming it (12 Small Heath definitely)) so now I'm going to check my book.cjackson wrote:Photo No. 13 - female Southern Gatekeeper ?
I remember coming across a posting on this very site explaining the differences between the two species and that's why I concluded rapae and not mannii I have another photo taken of a different insect which is less clear, but in fairness partly due to the not so good picture. I will probably tag it on to the end of the fritillary posting later.Roger Gibbons wrote:Re the Small White, I think a fork on the vein can just be seen, which would confirm Small and not Southern Small White.
Thanks for your input Roger The photo is not that good unfortunately. Later on I have other better underside pictures which hopefully will be conclusive.Roger Gibbons wrote:The False Heath - the marginal band doesn't seem particularly yellow and contrasted which I would expect for False Heath, and the band seems rather narrow and regular. This isn't very clear from the photo, so maybe a close-up is needed. The unf lunule in s2 is also heavily shaded, which would normally be indicative of Heath. The unh post-discal spaces do look right for False Heath though.
he came down from the bush to check me outCharles Nicol wrote:the first one of the SWF on the pallet is very striking.
it seems that fro yours; Chris's and David's comments not to mention my (outdated) book that Map was a good find for this region. You may have noted that I did not put it down as a "lifer" as this was the species of butterfly that turned up in Dorset late last summer and I was fortunate to get the opportunity to go and see it (them). There was also a lot of debate regarding its origin because the species is expanding its range. However in this case the source was I believe, a release .Charles Nicol wrote:i have never seen Maps in the Midi
Phil
Phil
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Re: Holiday to France Part 2
Just a quick note on the false Heath. Roger is right that the heavy branding under the forewing is typical of athalia, but it is also found in form vernetensis of diamina - and is often heavier in this form than in athalia. In the foothills of the Pyrenees, I would expect to see vernetensis or a transitional form. The yellow marginal line is variable in colour. I'd be pretty confident this is diamina, with the caveat that Roger spends more time in this part of the world and in the end I would trust his judgment.
Re squeezing the butterfly's bottom to expose its private parts: although this is clearly preferable to killing if you can do it properly, I've never attempted it and probably will not in the future. There is obvious potential to harm the butterfly. I am with Matt in the field a lot and can vouch for the fact he doesn't generally do it either, though I know he has in the past. If this means some individuals escape identification, so be it. If I thought I had discovered a previously unknown Swiss population of some Melitaea species I would alert the Swiss recorder and if there was doubt he would probably take a single individual and identify it with certainty - as he did with a population of Erebia eriphyle I showed him.
I do, however, carry a net, so I can take upperside and underside photos of problematic butterflies.
Guy
Re squeezing the butterfly's bottom to expose its private parts: although this is clearly preferable to killing if you can do it properly, I've never attempted it and probably will not in the future. There is obvious potential to harm the butterfly. I am with Matt in the field a lot and can vouch for the fact he doesn't generally do it either, though I know he has in the past. If this means some individuals escape identification, so be it. If I thought I had discovered a previously unknown Swiss population of some Melitaea species I would alert the Swiss recorder and if there was doubt he would probably take a single individual and identify it with certainty - as he did with a population of Erebia eriphyle I showed him.
I do, however, carry a net, so I can take upperside and underside photos of problematic butterflies.
Guy
Guy's Butterflies: https://www.guypadfield.com
The Butterflies of Villars-Gryon : https://www.guypadfield.com/villarsgryonbook.html
The Butterflies of Villars-Gryon : https://www.guypadfield.com/villarsgryonbook.html
Re: Holiday to France Part 2
Not sure how far away from Ax-les-Thermes you were, Phil, but when I visited that area in 2012 I saw both spring brood Maps at altitude as well as summer brood at lower levels on successive days!!Philzoid wrote:I checked my 'main book' Collins Field Guide Butterflies Britain and Europe (Tolman and Lewington) and the Map does not feature in the region I saw it. However the text and distribution maps were compiled in 1997 so the butterfly may have expanded its range since then. Perhaps I need a new edition of the book?
They're definitely present!
Re: Holiday to France Part 2
Great shots and report Philzoid and pretty jammy - from one to three species in one posting Looking forward to the the next instalment for more great shots, more new species and as an impetus to get my arse in gear and sort my own foreign foray.
Have a goodun
Wurzel
Have a goodun
Wurzel
Re: Holiday to France Part 2
well .... perhapsWurzel wrote:Great shots and report Philzoid and pretty jammy - from one to three species in one posting
half term coming up ...perhaps a chance for a break? Whenever you do get around to doing it it's going to be a cracking postWurzel wrote:and as an impetus to get my arse in gear and sort my own foreign foray.
Great stuff ... and it that would've been an even bigger feat if you'd got the intermediate form too (f. porima)David M wrote: I saw both spring brood Maps at altitude as well as summer brood at lower levels on successive days!!
I have taken a net with me once to Sheepleas for help with identifying micromoths but ended up using it to get a closer look of a small brown butterfly which turned out to be a very worn Chalk-hill Blue (released unharmed afterwards of course). If I was in your position Guy I would take a net too. Overall though, the butterflies in the UK are not quite as 'problematic' as the species encountered in Europe to warrant the 'extra paraphernalia' .Padfield wrote:I do, however, carry a net, so I can take upperside and underside photos of problematic butterflies.
BTW I'm not sure but didn't Roger err to athalia rather than diamina
Re: Holiday to France Part 2
Hi Chris
I've had another look at my female (Southern) Gatekeeper and it's compelling to believe it might be cecilia .... the more extensive orange on the hind-wing, the lack of any hint of an eyespot on the hind-wing too, plus the indent next to the forewing large eyespot. The habitat though was where you'd expect to find tithonus lush bushy margins near woodland rather than the dryer rocky places where cecilia haunts. If I'd got an underside that would've been conclusive.
Wished I'd paid it more attention
Phil
I've had another look at my female (Southern) Gatekeeper and it's compelling to believe it might be cecilia .... the more extensive orange on the hind-wing, the lack of any hint of an eyespot on the hind-wing too, plus the indent next to the forewing large eyespot. The habitat though was where you'd expect to find tithonus lush bushy margins near woodland rather than the dryer rocky places where cecilia haunts. If I'd got an underside that would've been conclusive.
Wished I'd paid it more attention
Phil
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Re: Holiday to France Part 2
I was just making observations on the diamina, to the effect that it didn't look quite right. Just a bit of verbal head-scratching. I felt that the default was probably to diamina. I only saw one vernetensis (and Guy is right about the shading) near Puymorens in July and was busy observing something else in the naive belief that I would get to see more, which of course I didn't.