www.ukbutterflies.co.uk

As promised/threatened.

Any help much appreciated. Apologies for the quality. All taken in July, central Switzerland, between 1500 and 1800m.















Simon C

Simon,

I think these caterpillars are rather difficult to identify.
The first one I would say it is Cucullia lucifuga, but in that area there are several Cucullia's and probably some of them can be similar in larval stage.
Your second larva is a Saturnia, I am quite sure of S. pavonia.
In Italy (and if I am correct it is also a species in Switzerland and South-Germany) there's also Saturnia pavoniella - but that larva's looks different from pavonia.

Cheers,
Tymo

Netherlands

This set are a bit harder to ID

1. This could be Alpine Grizzled Skipper, Dusky Grizzled Skipper, Carline Skipper, Warren's Skipper, Rosy Grizzled Skipper, Olive Skipper or Large Grizzled Skipper I'd plump for Olive Skipper given the ID books I have.

2. Dingy Skipper.

3. Don't know.

4. I'd plump for Heath Fritillary, since they're a) quite abundant and b) quite variable. There are a couple of things that make me believe it might be something else

5. Scotch Argus, based on distribution, and lack of chequered fringes.

Caterpillars aren't my speciality

Cheers,

- Pete

1) I’ll preface any comment by saying that identifying pyrgus species is sometimes almost impossible, so anything is just a best guess, and this is a rather worn specimen which makes it much harder. The undersides often give the best clues, but the subjects don’t often oblige. I would tend to go for large grizzled skipper (pyrgus alveus). It’s a male so that helps narrow it down a bit. Alpine, Dusky, Carline, Cinquefoil, all have distinguishing features and I think can be eliminated. Warrens is very small and very rare, so can probably be discounted. Foulquiers is quite scarce and with stronger white forewing marks. Rosy and Oberthurs are possible, but the underside markings are probably too pale. Olive and Large only remain and I would tend to say that the forewing markings are too heavy for Olive. That leaves Large, which is reasonably common at altitude. Luckily the butterflies themselves don’t have to go through this process to find a mate!!

I’ve looked at a lot of pyrgus this year, some of which are on this page (click on photos to enlarge) http://www.butterfliesoffrance.com/html ... nknown.htm (Pete - if it’s not permitted to put links on forum pages, please delete this).

2) dingy skipper (erynnis tages) – looks clear cut.

3) large wall (lasiommata maera) - I’m guessing here as nearly all the large walls I have seen are of the orange form adrasta, but I don’t really see what else it could be. The only other option would be northern wall brown (lasiommata petropolitana) which has a clear transverse line on the hindwing, which this doesn’t appear to have. It’s a male, I think. It does look very much like the Scandinavian form borealis (which it obviously can’t be) as illustrated in Tolman & Lewington, but altitude can cause unusual effects.

4) very tricky. There are clues that suggest heath fritillary (mellicta athalia) and on a probability basis this is likely, as they just so common (and extremely variable). There are other species that have similar undersides that I’m not familiar with, such as assmann’s fritillary (mellicta britomartis), so an opinion from an expert would be needed.

5) there are about thirty erebia species in the Alps and they all look very similar. I would tend to go for woodland ringlet (erebia medusa), maybe a female, but I haven’t seen enough of them to be confident about this. Another possibility is de prunners ringlet (erebia triaria) but the key there is that there is a third, smaller, eye spot above (but in line with) the two large ones, and there’s only a pinprick spot here, so I guess triaria is ruled out.

I'm sure this won't be the last word on the matter, but here are my suggestions:
The first skipper looks absolutely right for a male olive skipper (serratulae), though without the uns I doubt anyone would be bold enough to say for 100%.
Next is definitely dingy skipper.
The next is a male large wall brown - this is the typical form here in Switzerland.
My instinct tells me the fritillary is false heath (M. diamina). However, if that is right I would have expected it to have been identified rapidly from the upperside. If the upperside was typical 'heath frit' style then I have to say this is quite a strange underside.
The ringlet is most probably a female woodland ringlet, E. medusa. Notice the white tip to the antennae, charactaristic of this species. I don't know how many of the others do have this (it is usually cited for separationg from bright-eyed ringlet) but I don't think Scotch argus does, for example. Also, this is a female and female Scotch argus does have a chequered fringe.
I'm afraid that like several other correspondents I am not very experienced with caterpillars!

Guy

The grizzled skipper: in addition to the pyrgus undersides being much better for ID purposes, the uppersides of fresh specimens can give a good clue – large grizzled (P. alveus) is (if I understand it correctly) generally dark grey-brown and olive (P. serratulae) is a deep dark brown, but it’s hard to draw any conclusions if the specimen is very worn. It also highlights that ID is not too difficult in the UK as most species are not subject to local or altitude variation, but in Europe there are so many subspecies and local forms that you would often think they can’t be the same butterfly. This is why experience and local knowledge are vital, so Guy’s ID of serratulae is the most informed you’ll get. I have seen male serratulae that had very small white forewing marks, almost pinpoints, but these marks are so variable.

The fritillary: a deeper look:
1) the forewing marginal black mark in space 2, being more prominent than those around it, suggests heath fritillary (mellicta athalia)
2) the forewing crescent-shaped marginal lunules suggest athalia
3) the white marks making up the underside white discal band seemed flatter externally, possibly suggest athalia whereas false heath fritillary (melitaea diamina) are more rounded
4) the underside yellow marginal band, contrasting with the white bands either side strongly suggests not athalia and points strongly to diamina
5) the forewing yellow marginal band is very even and yellow which strongly suggests diamina – athalia is usually wavy internally
6) the darker postdiscal hindwing band between the white discal and submarginal bands usually has dark marks or spots within each segment in diamina, which this does not (photo of diamina attached), and the circular black edging to these segments seems heavy and slightly fuzzy which suggest not athalia although I have seen athalia looking like this. However, the athalia segments are usually red-filled or have clear round red spots which this doesn’t.

Conclusion: the yellow marginal bands are probably the characteristic least likely to vary and most indicative of diamina, or at least, preclude athalia, so I’d go for diamina. As Guy notes, if you had seen the upperside, you would have no doubt as the darker marks preponderate to the extent that sometimes there’s very little orange visible.