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Hi there

I was fortunate enough to spend the 1st 2 weeks of September in Croatia on the Dalmatian coast, close to the Biokovo National Park - a beautiful area, where butterfkies were still in relative abundance.

I attach photos of a few species that I'd appreciate some help/ confimation of identification as follows (top to bottom):

(1) Rubbish photograph, I'm afraid: and I'm really not sure of this one - Turquoise Blue would be my best guess - any ideas?

(2) Female Oriental Meadow Brown? - it's the 2 spots on the unf and the plain unh that suggest this species to me.

(3) (4) I'm reasonably confident these are Meleagers Blue (male and female respectively) but would appreciate confirmation.

(5) (6) (7) I think these are all Cardinal rather than SW Fritillary, although I've never seen Cardinal before and these were quite common in the area, all with the extensive green suffusion on the forewings. However the Collins guide suggest that Cardinal is generally univoltine and flies May/ early July so September is pushing it a bit.

(8) (9) Southern Gatekeeper or Gatekeeper? - I'm leaning towards the former.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Hi Part-Timer, sorry I can't be of massive assistance (I'll leave that to Guy, Roger, et al..) but I agree with both your Meleager's Blues and my first instinct is towards Cardinal too.

Hi Part-timer.

From what I can see, 1 is Escher's blue. I would rule out turquoise.

2 could be oriental or dusky meadow brown. I can't see enough detail of the hindwing shape to be sure.

3 and 4 are male and female Meleager's blues, as you say. The hindwing of the female has been 'smoothed out' by erosion of the jagged bits, I think!

5, 6 and 7 are male cardinals, again as you say. There is no doubt about this one! My local ones (Switzerland) were still flying yesterday, and looking quite fit!

Finally, the last two are indeed southern gatekeepers.

Guy

EDIT - the phenology of Escher's blue seems all wrong, but that is what it looks like to me all the same. Do you have any closer pictures, or higher resolution crops of this picture?

Thanks, David and Guy.

I attach a higher resolution crop of the same photograph. I considered Eschers Blue, but ruled out it out on the grounds that the sub-species dalmaticus is allegedly univoltine, flying in May/ June (although the nominate species is shown as flying up to August). I'd be interested in your further thoughts.

I also attach another photo of the Meadow Brown for further consideration (although this is a different insect, but in the same area) - not sure whether the hindwing shape in more evident on this example. The reason I went for Oriental rather than Dusky is that the lower of the 2 ocelli is blind, rather than pupilled, which is how it is shown in the Collins Guide for the female - is this not a distinguishing feature?

Thanks for those, Part-timer. Embarrassingly, having said I would rule out turquoise, the higher resolution picture makes me do a U-turn and say I think it is this! Sorry ... The orange spots on the hindwing are heart-shaped and lack the dark border I thought they had from the original photo.

The new picture of the Hyponephele shows a strong hindwing lobe and strong scalloping. These are characteristic of oriental meadow brown. In the absence of an upperside view, where there are some less subjective features (I don't think I've ever seen the upperside of a live Hyphonephele now I come to think of it ...) I would go for oriental.

Guy

Oriental (lupina) cf Dusky (lycaon) is, to my eyes, a very unclear issue. A visit to the Natural History Museum to study the archives of both species didn't seem to throw any definitive light on the issue. I looked at the various factors generaly quoted as being characteristic and, rather than repeat them here, you can read them on my "lupina" page if you are interested.

http://www.butterfliesoffrance.com/html ... lupina.htm

I think a clear view of the upperside (which is rarely on show) would be required for definitive ID.

Guy/ Roger - thanks once again for your responses and I will look at Roger's lupina page.

I guess there is always an element of uncertainty involved when trying to compare similar species from snapshots taken of fast flying insects in difficult conditions, especially if, like me, you have rarely or never encountered these species before and have only a guide book to help you along. That is what makes this such an enjoyable and challenging pastime - I don't really mind if I don't arrive at a firm conclusion in all cases: the value I get from this forum is to help understand the subtle distinctions and hopefully to hone up my skills for next time around.