www.ukbutterflies.co.uk

We saw this individual at Durlston, Dorset UK yesterday and in flight thought it possibly a White!!!! however alas not as it was a Clouded yellow at rest.

Our initial thoughts were f.helice but after a couple of hours umming and aahing we cant pin it to a particular Specie, can you guys please give us a definite answer?

I was convinced it was Pale as the upper spot isn't round and small enough? Thanks guys I am sure you can define this tricky individual, Pete

I would say this is compatible with helice but also compatible with female alfacariensis. I've never seen a female hyale with that wing-shape - but then again, if I did, I'd probably call it alfacariensis, as that is the default chez moi.

On the basis of that photo alone I think you'd have to call helice. But I bet you took more pictures, and some of them show different aspects, even if the pictures themselves are poor. If you do have any others, it might be helpful to post them.

Guy

Thanks Guy,

I binned most my other shots as they were either distant or very similar to this one with less wing definition. I will see if my friend got any of the flight shots, as I had no chance at focusing it in flight.

Do you know what defines Pale from helice?

Cheers, Pete

I would get onto your friend and see if he has anything different, however awful the shots!

It makes me think: as a general principle this year, if two people see a yellow which isn't obviously a clouded yellow, I think one person should do the art photography bit and the other should turn their camera to video in sports mode, focused on the butterfly. It means one person will sacrifice the praise for the lovely shots, but they'll get the praise if they provide evidence for a rarity!

Most useful features of the British clouded yellow are on the forewings, which are almost completely hidden in this (very good) picture.

Guy

Good advice, Guy, and given that most of us have seen Clouded Yellows in the southern part of the UK, I feel the 'sport mode' default may well be worth considering.

Once record shots have been taken aplenty, it's time to experiment!

Great advice Guy - I have been creeping round ever Helice I have seen to try and get a backlit shot and they are quite mobile creatures so it has only been successful fifty percent of the time. Camera has already been switched to sports mode in anticipation!

I don't know if this helps but here is another couple my friend has sent with more open wings.............

I think those allow you to say with some confidence it is helice. Not because the first shot was a bad shot - on the contrary - it just didn't reveal enough, on its own, for me at any rate to feel sure about the species.

Guy

Thanks Guy I feel very confident in your response.

Great work, best wishes, Pete

If by sports mode you mean rapid shoot 5 frames per second, I was lucky enough to get helice a few years ago - on this page 6719/6721

http://www.butterfliesoffrance.com/html ... crocea.htm

Just to add to the debate I have this down as a Clouded Yellow just need to confirm! only picture I was able to get as it shot off.
Many Thanks

Andy

Hi Andy,

This has 100% female Clouded Yellow written all over it for me. You've captured the key diagnostics.

Kind regards. Mark

Thanks for that another on sorted for the list, just need to try for a better photo

Ta

Andy

Here's another Clouded Yellow that is probably a Helice but having looked through my reference books I'm still a bit uncertain. What do you guys think?

I'd go with helice for all of the reasons given above

Cheers,

- Pete

Pete Eeles wrote:I'd go with helice for all of the reasons given above

Cheers,

- Pete

Cheers Pete, I thought Helice was most likely, it looked a bit different when compared to my other Helice images, even more pale looking than the others, it's funny how little differences like that get your mind whirring.

With so many CY about, there are bound to be loads of queries re. ID. For those who missed it, there is an excellent explanation by Padfield in the thread at viewtopic.php?f=14&t=7124&p=75511&hilit ... 58e#p75511

Mike

Thanks Mike I am going over to gen up of the guide with Guys help