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Now that the Erebias should be covered, we can move to more challenging group...

These three I've tentatively named P. cacaliae. This MIGHT be P. serratulae. And this could again be P. cacaliae, but it looks a bit different from the others... I'm quite interested to see the judgment on the first batch.

Your IDs look pretty good to me. The serratulae looks quite typical.

Roger

I'm quite surprised. Thanks!

I agree.

The first three are definitely cacaliae but I should say I thought a bit about the last one. The general colour scheme recalls warrenensis. Female cacaliae is usually frosted grey, without those golden discal reflections. Here is a typical female cacaliae, taken earlier this year:



It's probably just the angle, but if you have any other shots confirming the colouration, or better still, an underside shot (the undersides are absolutely distinctive and characteristic in these species) it might be worth a second thought.

Guy

That's the very reason I took so many pictures of suspect P. cacaliaes. I'll check about more pictures, but I don't think there's more of that individual.



And then the second set.

I'm pretty sure the first is P. andromedae. and the second should be P. malvae / malvoides. If someone can tell, which to expect in Mallnitz, I'd like to know. This looks quite a lot like the P. serratulae in the first set, so that is my guess. Then it gets interesting. The last two are (with high certainty) of the same individual. The closest I can think is P. cacaliae with strange middle spot,

It's very difficult to see that last one as cacaliae. I have never seen cacaliae with a demarcated white spot, as in this butterfly, in the middle at the base of the hindwing underside. This area is sometimes quite white, but always diffusely so. Also, the large, white discal spot is generally more or less anvil-shaped in cacaliae - not square basally, as in your butterfly. Finally, your butterfly shows a faint, continuous white band around the hindwing. All these features point to serratulae, even though the upperside is weird. That has to be my best guess, but I am not sure.

Cacaliae uns showing the anvil shape and the diffuse white base:



Serratulae uns, showing square central spot and slight white border to hindwing:



Guy

There's another shot of the P. cacaliae/warrenensis, but its from above as well. Likely not much help.

My guess was based on the upperside alone - I haven't been able to understand the underside ID's so far.

It does seem very golden-brown around the edges, but then again the hindwing shows very little of the paler bands found in female warrenensis. I think you have to go conservative and say cacaliae.

Guy

Your 2345 which you thought might be cacaliae, looks like a possible candidate female carlinae on quick inspection.

The upperside looks quite normal for carlinae and some features of the underside suggest carlinae (the rectangular marginal v5 mark, the empty discal s2) although the discal s4/5 marks looks rather normal for serratulae. The basal s7 mark is very rounded but this does not in my experience preclude carlinae.

The upperside looks very unlike cacaliae and also rather off-centre for serratulae. The underside is, as already said, not right for cacaliae, so serratulae would be the only alternative to carlinae.

Does Guy think carlinae a viable option here?

2662 didn’t seem to quite have the narrow rather angular forewing you would expect of warrenensis. It seemed rather rounded in a way I would associate with cacaliae. Although I have seen very few warrenensis on which to base this view.

I agree carlinae is a possibility - though the weirdess of the upperside largely rules that out for me for use in the ID. I've never seen carlinae look like that, but I've never seen serratulae look like that either (on the upperside).

Browsing through my pictures of carlinae I have one that matches quite closely, except for the 'oval' spot, which isn't at all oval in any of my carlinae:



Most of my carlinae are considerably brighter orange/yellow than this, though, and with brighter veins.

So, I'm left uncertain. My gut feeling remains for serratulae but I could accept carlinae as a possibility, given that the ups tell me little.

Guy

According to some paper I found there is a single record of P. carlinae from entire Carinthia. I don't recall how old the paper was, but it does make that rather unlikely.

And then set 3. Unfortunately, the picture quality is going down.

For these my guess is P. cacaliae. For the first that is based on the little that is seen from the upperside. These look like the P. serratulaes in earlier set... And for the last one ... P. armoricanus?? At least it looks different from any of the earlier ones.

The last one didn't get any comments, so it is time to add the last of the group.

1: P. cacaliae
2: Pyrgus sp. The color and shine seems completely different from all the others. On second thought ... malvae/malvoides? I have a similar shine from one in Finnland.
3: Pyrgus sp. The angle makes this rather difficult. The spots are small, but the few that are seen are distinctive
4: P. serratulae or cacaliae?
5: P. serratulae?

The editing is FINALLY done.