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Hi

Having had some very helpful advice on Grizzled Skipper identification from this forum in the past, I thought I'd try my luck again. The attached were taken in Bulgaria (Rhodope Mountains) in May this year.

Taking location and flight period into account, my starters for 10 are as follows (from the top down):

Orbed Red Underwing
Oberthurs
Orbed Red Underwing
Orbed Red Underwing
Oberthurs



I'd be very interested to hear what others think.

Hi Part Timer

All bar the last shot appear to be Orbed Red Underwing Skipper with the small bright upperwing spotting pattern and the small rounded underwing spots.

The last shot could be Oberthur's Grizzled Skipper with the subdued hind wing upperside markings but others may have a better idea.

Regards

Thanks, Paul.

Anyone else got a view on whether the last picture is Oberthur's? It's not a bad shot of the upperwings at least.

It looks good for Oberthur's to me. There don't appear to be any reasons why it isn't and no features that suggest it might be anything else.

But with Pyrgus, it is rare to be 100%. If Guy agrees, I think you can be confident.

Roger

I certainly agree with the Spialia, but will throw a spanner into the works for the Pyrgus!

I first read this post in bed and didn't reply immediately because I wasn't sure about this last one - and then, predictably, forgot. My uncertainty is that it might be serratulae. I have a photograph of a rather similar individual which I logged at the time as serratulae and can't now recall whether I saw the underside. It was at a site where armoricanus also flies but I know I didn't even consider that species at the time - and I can remember the occasion perfectly. Here it is:



The date was 22nd April. I saw several other serratulae that day and didn't see armoricanus until May that year, at the same site:





Although I can't prove it at this distance, I am very confident my first picture shows serratulae, from the date if nothing else. This is not identical to Part Timer's butterfly but should give pause for thought. Can anyone rule out serratulae?

Guy

I think we have been caught out by the possibility of unusually heavily marked serratulae before. It is a bit of a dark horse (or, more appropriately, a light horse). Both the forewing and hindwing markings are very heavy by normal serratulae standards, and the sandy basal forewing dusting strongly (at least, usually,) suggests armoricanus, but I think we have been rather forced to accept in the past that serratulae can wander some distance from its classical markings.

As always, an underside view would be almost definitive between these two species.