www.ukbutterflies.co.uk

Hi all

This is a bit of a cheek I know, but I figured that people could just ignore it if it's too big an ask. I've just put a trip report, for a recent visit to France, on my website. There was a big emphasis on butterflies. I'm mainly a birder/mammal watcher and I'm very insecure when identifying butterflies. I have posted several pictures on here asking for help and received a great response, but if anyone is willing to cast an eye to look for an obvious identification mistakes I'd be very grateful. There's also a few other insects that I'd love help identifying.

https://sites.google.com/a/stevebabbs.c ... rance-2012

Thanks in advance.

Oh to save too much embarrassment , if there's loads maybe you could let me know by PM or the contact form on the website!

Hi Steve,

Your first Hairstreak is Blue Spot rather than Blue Eyed.

Nice images by the way.

Some lovely pictures indeed! I bet there will be a few jealous glances at that wallcreeper!!

Some additional corrections:

The 'dark green frit' is high brown.
The 'lesser spotted frit' would seem most likely spotted fritillary, unless you know something not visible in the picture.
The 'Provençal frit' doesn't convince me (I would have gone for heath), but again I only have that photo to go on.

I will enjoy going through the dragonflies with a book later - I can't do those off the top of my head, unlike the butterflies. But there are some good species there!

I saw beavers in Norway but never got close enough to take pictures - amazing!

Guy

EDIT - I did enjoy going through the dragons/damsels and agree with all your IDs.

The first orthopteron is Eupholidoptera chabrieri. The fourth is difficult because partly in shadow, but I can not rule out Bog Bush-cricket (bogs not essential). Just possibly Sepiana sepium. I agree the others.

M.

Lesser Spotted Fritillary (M. trivia) doesn't occur in France, and this looks very much like a female Spotted (M. didyma).

The Provencal Fritillary (M. dejone) does look rather like Heath (M. athalia) from what can be seen of the underside but seen in the field may have revealed reasons to believe it is dejone.

The Vercors is a fabulous and largely undiscovered region, perhaps because there are limited routes into it. I recall annual trips there around 2000 and was amazed to see seven species of fritllary in one small flower meadow.

Roger

Thanks guys, I really do appreciate it. It would seem my insecurities about butterfly id are well founded!

I'm working my way through them. Looking at the fritillary I labelled dark-green - I realised I did this mainly because I looked at photo, taken within a minute, of an underside of a dark green. Now I've looked closely I realise they cannot possibly be the same individual - to help me improve my identification skills I would be interested to know the best way they can be identified on the upperside view.

The 'Provencal frit' was mainly identified after advice on this forum. Here's another picture, in case it helps.


Thanks again.

Hi Steve. Yes - your original post is here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6530&p=65491#p65491. Roger called Provençal frit and I said lower down I agreed with all his calls - though I don't remember studying that butterfly and think I might have been referring to his IDs of dragnil's post. Looking at the upperside I remain uncertain. It seems compatible with M. athalia celadussa, though I agree it does have the air of deione about it. The palpi are very dark but several people have mentioned that in their experience this is not as conclusive as it is cracked up to be (they are supposed to be dark in athalia). Roger has much more experience of Melitaea in that region than I do (fortunately, Swiss deione are very easy to identify, being quite distinctive) so I'm happy to go with his conclusion if he stands by it. For myself, I would probably plump for celadussa by default but that might just be cowardice and a function of this being much the commoner butterfly in the regions I frequent.

Sorry that's not much help! I'll leave it to Roger (or Misha, or one of the others with experience of that group).

For the high brown fritillary, the sex brands are conclusive. Two strong sex brands in the male like that trump all other indicators (which include wing shape and the curve of the submarginal spots - both of which also point to high brown in this instance).

Guy

Guy

Actually that helps a lot: it makes me feel better about the problems I have; when much more experienced butterfly watchers find it difficult!

Going back to the Orthoptera, I do wish there was a decent guide! Mikhail, I realise that my first Orthoptera is not wartbiter, but it doesn't look like any pictures of Eupholidoptera chabrieri I can find on the internet. I'm not disputing your identification at all, but I would be grateful for any further guidance. On the possible bog bush-cricket front I've attached another photo, in case it helps.

Cheers

The upperside shot looks very good for male dejone, as we said before when it appeared on UKB. I would not say categorically that it cannot be athalia, but I would be very surprised if it was, as I see thousands of athalia across southern France where it is a common species. The female dejone would be easier to identify with greater confidence because of the colour contrast between the bands.

The key feature of dejone from an underside view is that is very distinctly red compared to athalia or other Mellicta species. You can’t really tell from the camera angle of the underside shot whether it has this redness or not. Otherwise, the markings are very similar to athalia which is very variable; the shots of English athalia I see on UKB (as I have never seen it in the UK) seem fairly consistent.

I should add that dejone is quite a rare customer in Var and my experience is rather limited.

Steve.

You did well to query my identification of Eupholidoptera. I clearly didn't look closely enough at your photo. My apologies. My revised view is that it is a female Anonconotus alpinus. I still think your fourth photo shows the Bog Bush-cricket, but not 100% certain. If you really want to get to grips with the French orthoptera there is a good guide in the shape of Guide des Sauterelles, Grillons et Criquets d'Europe Occidentale by Heiko Bellmann and Gérard Luquet. It comes with a CD of the songs.

M.

Mikhail

Thanks again. I had no idea that book existed. I've now ordered it; that will test my limited French!

Cheers

Hi Steve,

Some excellent pictures you've got there! About the Apollo - it is not "tatty" at all, it is actually a female in very good condition - they have less white than males. I envy you - still don't have a decent photo of a female...

Cheers,