Southern Bulgaria
- Paul Wetton
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Southern Bulgaria
Hi everyone.
I waited a while to post my trip report from Southern Bulgaria as Michaels trip report was excellent and I couldn't stand the competition.
I've posted the following report in separate sections on my own web pages as it helps when adding the report to my website.
Please let me know if you disagree with any of my identifications as some species may well be incorrectly identified.
Please click on the following link to access Part 1 of the report.
http://www.ibirdz.co.uk/bulgaria/bulgariapart1.html
All comments welcome.
I waited a while to post my trip report from Southern Bulgaria as Michaels trip report was excellent and I couldn't stand the competition.
I've posted the following report in separate sections on my own web pages as it helps when adding the report to my website.
Please let me know if you disagree with any of my identifications as some species may well be incorrectly identified.
Please click on the following link to access Part 1 of the report.
http://www.ibirdz.co.uk/bulgaria/bulgariapart1.html
All comments welcome.
Cheers Paul
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http://www.wildlife-films.com http://www.ibirdz.co.uk
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http://www.wildlife-films.com http://www.ibirdz.co.uk
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Re: Southern Bulgaria
Hi Paul,
Great report and wonderful photos.
All the best, Nick.
Great report and wonderful photos.
All the best, Nick.
- Paul Wetton
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Re: Southern Bulgaria
Hi Nick
Many thanks for taking a look. It certainly was a pleasure being out there.
Three more parts to post when all completed.
Many thanks for taking a look. It certainly was a pleasure being out there.
Three more parts to post when all completed.
Cheers Paul
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Re: Southern Bulgaria
It was a pleasure reading your report, and some of your bird photos brought back some very fond memories.It looks like you and your wife had a lovely time. I look forward to seeing the rest of your report and photos.
All the best, Nick.
All the best, Nick.
- Paul Wetton
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Re: Southern Bulgaria
Thanks again Nick.
It was a wonderful place with some lovely people and excellent wildlife including the birds. I think the use of older farming methods and lack of money helps the wildlife but it was noticeable that there are problems in places like Bulgaria where farmland is either becoming unused or mountainsides are having ski hotels built on wild land. I hope they keep the lid on these problems but money is a big factor in poorer countries.
I was a birder for many years before getting into butterflies but now spend my time admiring all aspects of wildlife.
I'll post some more of the report later in the week.
All the best.
It was a wonderful place with some lovely people and excellent wildlife including the birds. I think the use of older farming methods and lack of money helps the wildlife but it was noticeable that there are problems in places like Bulgaria where farmland is either becoming unused or mountainsides are having ski hotels built on wild land. I hope they keep the lid on these problems but money is a big factor in poorer countries.
I was a birder for many years before getting into butterflies but now spend my time admiring all aspects of wildlife.
I'll post some more of the report later in the week.
All the best.
Cheers Paul
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Re: Southern Bulgaria
Hi Paul
Just a few comments on your interesting trip report so far.
Balkan Green-veined White. Considerable doubt has been cast on the validity of this taxon. See for example http://www.butterfliesofbulgaria.com/pienap.html. But quite apart from that, the reduced veining you mention is actually typical of summer Green-veined Whites throughout southern Europe.
Balkan Clouded Yellow. I'm puzzled by your sightings of the darker Clouded Yellows. The Balkan Clouded Yellow is a rather rare and local montane species that would certainly not be present in the hot Arda Valley area. A pity you have no photos.
Common Lizard. This too is a high mountain species in Bulgaria, and your picture seems to show Erhard's Wall Lizard Podarcis erhardii.
Falakron Blue. This is another problem 'species'. Recent research has shown that this its DNA is indistinguishable from that of the Common Blue on the same mountain (Falakro). I have personally seen outsize 'Common Blues' in several places in Bulgaria, both in the mountains and lowlands, and remain puzzled.
I envy you your photos of the Little Tiger Blue. In spite of many sightings I still have no satisfactory photo.
I look forward to further episodes.
M.
Just a few comments on your interesting trip report so far.
Balkan Green-veined White. Considerable doubt has been cast on the validity of this taxon. See for example http://www.butterfliesofbulgaria.com/pienap.html. But quite apart from that, the reduced veining you mention is actually typical of summer Green-veined Whites throughout southern Europe.
Balkan Clouded Yellow. I'm puzzled by your sightings of the darker Clouded Yellows. The Balkan Clouded Yellow is a rather rare and local montane species that would certainly not be present in the hot Arda Valley area. A pity you have no photos.
Common Lizard. This too is a high mountain species in Bulgaria, and your picture seems to show Erhard's Wall Lizard Podarcis erhardii.
Falakron Blue. This is another problem 'species'. Recent research has shown that this its DNA is indistinguishable from that of the Common Blue on the same mountain (Falakro). I have personally seen outsize 'Common Blues' in several places in Bulgaria, both in the mountains and lowlands, and remain puzzled.
I envy you your photos of the Little Tiger Blue. In spite of many sightings I still have no satisfactory photo.
I look forward to further episodes.
M.
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Re: Southern Bulgaria
They are really excellent photos, Paul!
I'd be interested in any resolution of Misha's questions about the Balkan clouded yellows. I've never been to the region but I always imagined that species would be rather distinctive if seen at close range. Is your video good enough to extract diagnostic frames?
I look forward to part 2.
Guy
I'd be interested in any resolution of Misha's questions about the Balkan clouded yellows. I've never been to the region but I always imagined that species would be rather distinctive if seen at close range. Is your video good enough to extract diagnostic frames?
I look forward to part 2.
Guy
Guy's Butterflies: https://www.guypadfield.com
The Butterflies of Villars-Gryon : https://www.guypadfield.com/villarsgryonbook.html
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- Paul Wetton
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Re: Southern Bulgaria
I was going to reply when back home from work but here goes.
Thanks firstly for the informative comments Mikhail.
With regard to the Clouded Yellow Issue I do remember looking at video frames of some when they flew off to detect whether the black upperwing borders were crossed with yellow veins or not and I do have some video of a courting pair showing characteristics of Balkan Clouded Yellow. These were along a wooded mountain path in the far south west of the country. I think Mikhail is almost certainly correct and those seen earlier in the holiday were just Clouded Yellows, maybe fresh darkish individuals. I will amend my report with regrd to this.
The Green-veined Whites we saw, only 2 or 3 all had much reduced veining but as Mikhail says are likely just a form of the common Green-veined White.
Falakron Blue was a thought from me as some Common Blue types were twice the size of others and had much greyer and paler underwing ground colour but were probably all just Common Blue. This means I've got loads of video footage of Common Blues. Nothing wrong with that though. I have some video of two together both in good condition and one is definitely twice the size of the other.
Mikhail, thanks for the ID on the lizard. I may have more of these for you to look at.
Looks like we need good binoculars, possibly a net and microscope and now a DNA kit to ID butterflies.
Thanks firstly for the informative comments Mikhail.
With regard to the Clouded Yellow Issue I do remember looking at video frames of some when they flew off to detect whether the black upperwing borders were crossed with yellow veins or not and I do have some video of a courting pair showing characteristics of Balkan Clouded Yellow. These were along a wooded mountain path in the far south west of the country. I think Mikhail is almost certainly correct and those seen earlier in the holiday were just Clouded Yellows, maybe fresh darkish individuals. I will amend my report with regrd to this.
The Green-veined Whites we saw, only 2 or 3 all had much reduced veining but as Mikhail says are likely just a form of the common Green-veined White.
Falakron Blue was a thought from me as some Common Blue types were twice the size of others and had much greyer and paler underwing ground colour but were probably all just Common Blue. This means I've got loads of video footage of Common Blues. Nothing wrong with that though. I have some video of two together both in good condition and one is definitely twice the size of the other.
Mikhail, thanks for the ID on the lizard. I may have more of these for you to look at.
Looks like we need good binoculars, possibly a net and microscope and now a DNA kit to ID butterflies.
Cheers Paul
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http://www.wildlife-films.com http://www.ibirdz.co.uk
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Re: Southern Bulgaria
Another thought about those clouded yellows. There is, of course, the Danube Clouded Yellow, which is very like the Balkan C.Y., and more likely to be met with in hot lowlands. There are apparently three specimens dating from the early 20th century in the (Bulgarian) Natural History Museum collections. These are from the Sredna Gora, nearer the centre of the country. I would love to believe that you had re-discovered this species in Bulgaria. Who knows?
M.
M.
- Paul Wetton
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Re: Southern Bulgaria
Hi Mikhail
That would be fantastic but I think they were probably just common Clouded Yellows but I'll check all photos and video footage just in case.
Many thanks for the comments. As I am very amateurish when it comes to identification and I know very little about butterflies in eastern europe it's good to have a more expert opinion.
One species we found that hasn't been recorded in South West Bulgaria before was the Grass Jewel and this is luckily an unmistakeable species. It may be, accordong to some sources, the only verifiable record for the country.
Thanks.
That would be fantastic but I think they were probably just common Clouded Yellows but I'll check all photos and video footage just in case.
Many thanks for the comments. As I am very amateurish when it comes to identification and I know very little about butterflies in eastern europe it's good to have a more expert opinion.
One species we found that hasn't been recorded in South West Bulgaria before was the Grass Jewel and this is luckily an unmistakeable species. It may be, accordong to some sources, the only verifiable record for the country.
Thanks.
Cheers Paul
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- Rogerdodge
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Re: Southern Bulgaria
Paul
Enjoying the report, and looking forward to more instalments.
Very mouthwatering.
Excellent quality pics of course.
Good to meet you at BirdFair last weekend.
Enjoying the report, and looking forward to more instalments.
Very mouthwatering.
Excellent quality pics of course.
Good to meet you at BirdFair last weekend.
Cheers
Roger
Roger
- Paul Wetton
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Re: Southern Bulgaria
Hi Roger
Likewise, it was good to meet up and have a couple of beers with the two of you. Hope you got home ok.
I must point out that Helen took most of the photos shown in this trip report. Only a few were mine.
I reckon you'll enjoy a trip to Bulgaria. Hope it's not quite so hot when you go.
All the best.
Likewise, it was good to meet up and have a couple of beers with the two of you. Hope you got home ok.
I must point out that Helen took most of the photos shown in this trip report. Only a few were mine.
I reckon you'll enjoy a trip to Bulgaria. Hope it's not quite so hot when you go.
All the best.
Cheers Paul
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- Paul Wetton
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Re: Southern Bulgaria
Report updated following helpful comments from Mikhail. Thankyou.
Missing photos of Oreshari Meadows also added.
http://www.ibirdz.co.uk/bulgaria/bulgariapart1.html
Missing photos of Oreshari Meadows also added.
http://www.ibirdz.co.uk/bulgaria/bulgariapart1.html
Cheers Paul
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- Paul Wetton
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Re: Southern Bulgaria
Hi Mikhail
With regard to the Erhard's Wall Lizard are there any good pointers for it's identification or was it just the altitude it was at that gave it away.
Thanks in advance.
With regard to the Erhard's Wall Lizard are there any good pointers for it's identification or was it just the altitude it was at that gave it away.
Thanks in advance.
Cheers Paul
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Re: Southern Bulgaria
It was a case of choosing between Erhard's and the Common Wall Lizard. I am familiar with both species in Bulgaria, and your lizard just looks right for Erhard's. The conspicuous dorso-lateral stripes combined with the general colouration convince me. It's a matter of jizz as much as anything else. When you've seen a few, and have a good field guide, you soon get the hang of them. The Collins field guide is excellent I think, although a bit out of date with regard to the nomenclature. Oddly, contrary to recent trends in butterfly taxonomy, there has been a lot of generic splitting.
M.
M.
- Paul Wetton
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Re: Southern Bulgaria
I've been looking into the thoughts on the Phalakron or Falakron Blue and Lafranchis refers to this as a separate species Polyommatus andronicus.
This is also referred to a separate species by Kolev and is shown on his website http://www.butterfliesofbulgaria.com/poland.html
This species is described as being larger than P. icarus and the male has a pale grey ground colour which would stand our particularly against the male Common Blue summer brood which has a brown ground colour.
Any thoughts on this would be of interest. Maybe this is a separate species and is also more common than previously thought as we saw several Polyommatus type Blues with pale grey ground colour that were much larger than the more numerous browner Common Blues. These were not necessarily at high altitude as mentioned by Kolev but for example in the Marble Quarry areas of Slavyanka Mountain, on the southern side of the Arda Valley, both places being close to the Greek border and above Trigrad village in the grassy dry meadows.
Again obviously an outdoor laboratory with DNA analysis tools and a good binocular microscope may be of use in these situations but the underside ground colour and size of the males was significant compared to the traditional looking P. icarus types.
This is also referred to a separate species by Kolev and is shown on his website http://www.butterfliesofbulgaria.com/poland.html
This species is described as being larger than P. icarus and the male has a pale grey ground colour which would stand our particularly against the male Common Blue summer brood which has a brown ground colour.
Any thoughts on this would be of interest. Maybe this is a separate species and is also more common than previously thought as we saw several Polyommatus type Blues with pale grey ground colour that were much larger than the more numerous browner Common Blues. These were not necessarily at high altitude as mentioned by Kolev but for example in the Marble Quarry areas of Slavyanka Mountain, on the southern side of the Arda Valley, both places being close to the Greek border and above Trigrad village in the grassy dry meadows.
Again obviously an outdoor laboratory with DNA analysis tools and a good binocular microscope may be of use in these situations but the underside ground colour and size of the males was significant compared to the traditional looking P. icarus types.
Cheers Paul
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Re: Southern Bulgaria
What you say is true. There is no doubt there is a distinct phenotype known as the Falakron Blue, but it does seem odd that there should be two sympatric sibling species that are identical in their DNA. As a matter of interest, I note that the latest check-list used by Butterfly Conservation Europe does not include it. I think we just have to admit that we ordinary naturalists are out of our depth here.
M.
M.
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Re: Southern Bulgaria
I completely agree - though I think I'm more out of my depth than you, Misha. Nevertheless, if the form does exist, whether as a valid taxon (species or otherwise) or as an occasional local expression of the same genotype, or whatever, it's great to have had a chance to see it. This is one of those instances where the vernacular name is very useful, carrying as it does no taxonomic implications. You can say what you saw, even if you are not quite sure what it is!Mikhail wrote:I think we just have to admit that we ordinary naturalists are out of our depth here.
When I saw Agenjo's anomalous blue (agenjoi) for the first time last year I understood it to be a distinct species, or at best a subspecies of fabressei. Later, I learnt that DNA analysis had lumped it with ripartii. This was all genuinely very interesting, especially as I found it flying in the company of ripartii, but as a lay naturalist what was most exciting for me was finding and observing this distinctive butterfly in the field in the very restricted geographic location in which it flies. To a large extent it is the 'being there' that is so rewarding, or so I find.
Between you and Misha, Paul, you've aroused a desire in me to go and see a Phalakron blue for myself, whatever it turns out to be (or however you choose to spell it)!
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Guy
Guy's Butterflies: https://www.guypadfield.com
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- Paul Wetton
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Re: Southern Bulgaria
G. Well said, I couldn't agree more.
I think I'll continue to call the butterfly that shows the physical charateristics of a Phalakron / Falakron Blue just that. I will also call the Green-veined Whites in Bulgaria with reduced vein markings Balkan Green-veined White. I totally agree with Misha that this is probably not a distinct species but if it is a form found in a specific area there's probably nothing wrong with giving it a different name.
Thanks again for your interest in this thread.
I think I'll continue to call the butterfly that shows the physical charateristics of a Phalakron / Falakron Blue just that. I will also call the Green-veined Whites in Bulgaria with reduced vein markings Balkan Green-veined White. I totally agree with Misha that this is probably not a distinct species but if it is a form found in a specific area there's probably nothing wrong with giving it a different name.
Thanks again for your interest in this thread.
Cheers Paul
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Re: Southern Bulgaria
Brilliant report - look forward to next instalment.
Ian
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