www.ukbutterflies.co.uk

This article has caused some debate on Facebook:

http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/Moorland-t ... story.html

and has attracted a response from BC at: http://www.facebook.com/savebutterflies which reads:

Dear Sir

I was deeply saddened to see the recent column by Mr Liddell-Grainger MP on our efforts to conserve the special butterflies of Dartmoor and Exmoor.

Butterflies are one of the most threatened wildlife groups with over three-quarters of our species in decline and over 40% threatened with extinction. Our President Sir David Attenborough describes them as canaries in the coalmine, warning us of dangers that lie ahead. He also says that by conserving them we help create a healthy environment for us all to live in.

Exmoor and Dartmoor are the last refuges of butterflies that have disappeared from the rest of our countryside, including the High Brown Fritillary, Marsh Fritillary and Heath Fritillary.

Our Two Moors project is working with local people to save these and other wildlife. As Project Officer, Jenny Plackett, has been warmly welcomed by farmers on both moors and has helped many of them to enter into Environmental Stewardship schemes to manage their land sustainably.

This supports the rural economy as well as saving rare butterflies and the rich wildlife of the moors. Her work has been widely supported by local groups, including students from Minehead Middle School and the Duchy College. Such work is a good use of public funds, improving the local environment for the enjoyment of all and helping to deliver the Government’s internationally agreed targets to halt the loss of biodiversity.

Jenny is one of many dedicated conservationists who works very hard on annual contracts to help improve our environment. To attack her personally seems very unfair. Who breaks a butterfly upon a wheel?

Yours sincerely

Dr Martin Warren
Chief Executive
Butterfly Conservation

So - what do you all think?

Cheers,

- Pete

Oh dear, I read Liddell-Grainger's article. I had thought that such views were extinct but now see they are alive and well in the Conservative Party.

I also noted that he describes £155,000, over three years, as a 'ludicrous sum' for the BC work but he himself claimed £166,109 in expenses, including for office, staffing and travelling costs in 2007-2008, on top of the annual salary awarded to MPs which increased towards the end of 2007 to £61,820 [according to Wikipedia]. I wonder how proportionate that amount was to the results achieved?

Mike

Well put, Mike. I bet he knows all the loopholes to avoid paying his tax too.

I particularly liked his statement about the "alleged decline of the High Brown Fritillary".

How much evidence does he require?

David M wrote: I bet he knows all the loopholes to avoid paying his tax too.

For starters: Liddell-Grainger has registered his wife and two eldest children as employees.[source: Wikipedia]

Mike

Did the British public really vote for this idiot ...

I'm glad I don't live in Bridgwater and West Somerset.

http://www.liddellgrainger.org.uk/local ... ERPIE.html

So what, in practical terms, do you think UKB can do? I'm really incensed by this - especially him posting the photo of a conservationist on his personal blog; I'm sure there must be some law that applies here.

Anyway - a major item on the home page along the lines of "MP brings shame on Conservative Party" or some such.

As we know, BC have to be rather "conservative" for obvious reasons, but we don't

Cheers,

- Pete

Hi Pete,

I agree we need to make comment.

Pete Eeles wrote:MP brings shame on Conservative Party

I think a major item on the home page is a good idea and we should ensure that the Conservative Party central office are sent a link to the UKButterflies website so they are made aware of the ridiculous and irresponsible actions of one of their elected MPs.

I don't see this as a political thing but just an idiot who happens to wear a blue tie ...

Kind regards. Mark

MikeOxon wrote:

David M wrote: I bet he knows all the loopholes to avoid paying his tax too.

For starters: Liddell-Grainger has registered his wife and two eldest children as employees.[source: Wikipedia]

Mike

Now there's a surprise.

Pete Eeles wrote:I'm really incensed by this - especially him posting the photo of a conservationist on his personal blog; I'm sure there must be some law that applies here.

It's practically a smear and if I was on the receiving end I'd be getting even with a few choice words of my own.

Calling a female conservationist a "well rounded specimin" (sic) and displaying a photo publicly lampooning her is the kind of thing you'd expect from an adolescent with a grudge; it's hardly appropriate for a so-called "Right Honourable Member".

Tosser.

I see he's a fraud too. Take a look at this:

Site axes MP over 'fake' e-mails

An MP sent e-mails - and replies - to himself to improve his "responsiveness rating" on a website which helps people contact their elected representatives.
Conservative Iain Liddell-Grainger was disqualified from the writetothem.com league table after sending five messages from a hotmail account.

Site director Tom Steinberg said this had made his data "unreliable".

But the MP said the messages had been sent to show the findings were "bunk" and "statistically inaccurate"....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4735330.stm

I really wanted to make some useful suggestions about what to do/say over this matter. Unfortunately I feel so enraged that I can't as at the moment I have imaginings of Ian Liddell-Grainger being birch whipped and forced to eat hundreds of copies of his fatuous and horrendous words by a 30ft High Brown Fritillary - although as this is an MP we're talking about he'd probably enjoy it!

But are we really surprised - this is a member of the same Governing party that wanted to sell off the Forestry Commision, that is planing to rip up vast segments of the country to build a pointless railway and also mentioned building an airport over the Thames marshes. Green and environmentally friendly they are not, self serving and providing "jobs for their own" some might say they are...

Have a goodun

Wurzel

Sadly this dishonest and reprehensible fool is representing W. Somerset, where the local Council (probably with his backing) are planning to sell off one of the finest landscape and wildlife areas in the region.
I got the following from 38 Degrees (theyt co-ordinated much of the campaign against the sale of the Forestry land last year.

I visit the Quantocks regularly, and they are beautiful area. It woulod be sad to see it become a mono-culture desert like so much of the once amazing South West.

Sign the on line petition please!!!


Dear Roger,
Almost exactly a year ago, 38 Degrees members finally managed to stop the terrible plan to sell off England's woodlands. It was a huge victory for people power and over 500,000 of us played our part in it. [1]

We've helped keep our national forests safe. But beautiful wild places owned by local councils could still be under threat. We can work together to protect these precious places too.

38 Degrees members in Somerset have been in touch to ask for our help. Their council is trying to sell-off a local natural treasure, known as the Quantock Hills. [2] Councillors could decide to sell as soon as this Wednesday. If the sale goes ahead, a beautiful area of woodland and open countryside could be at risk.

A huge people-powered petition can make Somerset Council think again and safeguard the Quantock Hills for future generations. Add your name now – local 38 Degrees members will deliver the petition to the Council at the debate this Wednesday:
https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/protect-quantock-hills

The Quantock Hills are beautiful. Famous English poets like Wordsworth and Coleridge have written about them. [3] Rare plants and animals thrive there. [4] Hundreds of thousands of people visit every year. [5] If they're sold, there's every risk we'll see fences going up and crucial habitats in danger.

If Somerset Council get away with this, other councils across the country could start trying to sell off local wildlife havens too. Stopping Somerset Council should help stop these kinds of sell-off schemes becoming a new national menace. So it makes sense for all of us who stood together to protect woodland owned by our national government to speak up against Somerset Council's local sell-off plan.

Add your name now in time for the Somerset council meeting this week:
https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/protect-quantock-hills


Thanks for being involved,

Hannah, David, Johnny, Cian, Marie, Becky and the 38 Degrees Team


PS: Do you know of a dodgy council sell-off plan near you? Share it on the 38 Degrees website here. And please add your name to stop Somerset Council putting the Quantock Hills in danger: https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/protect-quantock-hills

NOTES
[1] Read more on the 38 Degrees website: http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/2011/02/17 ... r-forests/
[2] County Council gives notice to "dispose" of land http://www.quantockhills.com/resources/ ... land_1.jpg
[3] The Quantocks inspired the literature of both Coleridge http://www.coleridgeway.co.uk/ and Wordsworth http://exmoorencyclopedia.org.uk/conten ... hills.html
[4] The Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty Service reports on what could be damaged by selling off the land http://www.quantockhills.com/resources/ ... 191211.pdf
[5] 'Illegal use of public rights of way and green spaces with public access by mechanically propelled vehicles Case study 4: The Quantock Hills, Somerset' http://archive.defra.gov.uk/rural/docum ... se-cs4.pdf "The Quantock Hills are well visited and visitor surveys estimate a figure of 385,000 to 440,000 visits annually, with up to 3,000 people on the hills during the busiest day"

Wurzel wrote:I really wanted to make some useful suggestions about what to do/say over this matter. Unfortunately I feel so enraged that I can't as at the moment I have imaginings of Ian Liddell-Grainger being birch whipped and forced to eat hundreds of copies of his fatuous and horrendous words by a 30ft High Brown Fritillary - although as this is an MP we're talking about he'd probably enjoy it!

But are we really surprised - this is a member of the same Governing party that wanted to sell off the Forestry Commision, that is planing to rip up vast segments of the country to build a pointless railway and also mentioned building an airport over the Thames marshes. Green and environmentally friendly they are not, self serving and providing "jobs for their own" some might say they are...

Have a goodun

Wurzel

....oh, by the way, he's 339th in line to the throne and his full name is Iain Richard Peregrine Liddell-Grainger, so I guess he sees things from his own little ivory tower.

He also voted "strongly in favour of the Iraq war", which, in hindsight, makes him a peanut.

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/ian_li ... t_somerset

David M wrote:He also voted "strongly in favour of the Iraq war", which, in hindsight, makes him a peanut.

I can think of several words that would describe him .

Thanks Roger for putting up the links to the petition, duly signed. Astonishing, quite frankly

Michael

Outrageous ignorance.
Unfortunately, it’s the kind of bigoted rhetoric his constituents lap up and why they continue to vote him back into Westminster.
All for UKB putting out the strongest of statements to denounce his factually inaccurate outburst.

What an unpleasant article. I have now signed the 38 degrees Petition.

However, Liddell Grainger’s rant does contain one vestige of sense.

The conclusion is clear: get rid of the interfering conservationists, let farmers run the moor like they used to and cattle numbers will rise, scrub will go and the butterflies will return. (In fact there are many locations known to locals where these ‘threatened’ species thrive – but no-one’s about to reveal them because they don’t want career conservationists ‘managing’ it.)

I know of two old airfields used by gliding clubs that have thriving colonies of orchids. The existing management of these airfields is just perfect. They have club members who know exactly when to mow, when not to mow; how to manage their asset (and they are proud of the priceless asset). But in both cases, the gliding clubs do not want to involve outside conservation bodies telling them what they should be doing.

As for L-G's comment about Butterfly Conservation enjoying charity status — well there are certain organisations that I despise which enjoy charity status; like it or not, I have to accept that. We either have a system of tax-breaks (which inevitably includes bodies that an individual might personally disapprove of) or we abandon the concept of charity status altogether.

Jack

The conclusion is clear: get rid of the interfering conservationists, let farmers run the moor like they used to and cattle numbers will rise, scrub will go and the butterflies will return.

The problem with this statement is that some farmers do not want to run the moor like it used to be. They want to plough, spray insecticides and pesticides, enrich with nitrates and have "improved" pasture for sheep and cattle.
Exmoor landowners used to fall generally, into two camps. The wealthy land owners who managed for the deer so they could be hunted, and the impoverished hill farmer who could not afford to "improve" the land. Now the hunting is (supposed) to be banned, and the impoverished hill farmer is no longer impoverished due to the generosity of the CAP. Some land is now owned by individuals and organisations just looking to turn a fast buck, and have little interest in the history, traditions and wildlife of the moor. It needs protection from them.
Fortunately the NY manages/owns pretty large proportions of the more sensitive areas, so we can expect it to remain sensitively looked after in the main.

(In fact there are many locations known to locals where these ‘threatened’ species thrive – but no-one’s about to reveal them because they don’t want career conservationists ‘managing’ it.)

A silly little shock statement that can’t be disproved, or proved for that matter. Typical of the despicable type of politician this creature Liddell typifies.
There is no doubt that colonies still exist undiscovered. However, they are exactly that – undiscovered. Farmers/landowners I have met are pretty proud of their butterflies, and do not keep it quiet.

As you might imagine, I am not one for being shy when it comes to writing to my MP. They are busy people (filling in expense claim forms must take up a lot of time) so it is unrealistic to expect detailed responses. Nevertheless, two recent examples indicate the disregard they have for Constituents’ views.

1. I asked why if my Medical Records could be transferred seamlessly to a new GP when I moved to a new area, Dental Records could not (it cost me for the new dentist to find out what my old dentist already had on record)
The response (to paraphrase): “Because that’s the way it is”.
I further raised the question of the use of the word NATIONAL in National Health Service when it is anything but national (Post Code Lottery).
The response — well there wasn't one.

2. I wanted to know why we the English (and the Welsh and the Northern Irish) are disenfranchised in any referendum on Scottish Independence. I would actually be in favour of Independence.
The response was simply a reiteration of Government Policy and no reference whatsoever was made to my question. It is of interest that some politicians have now raised exactly my point and have also got nowhere.

So can we really hope than The Right Hon Euan Piddell-Grunger NFG and Bar is going to pay the slightest attention to what we say?

On reflection, I suppose might get better responses if I feigned respect.

Jack

Pete Eeles wrote:So - what do you all think?

Yesterday, when I read the article, I thought Mr Liddell-Grainger MP clearly knows nothing about either butterflies OR conservation. Fair enough, not everyone does, and despite some pretty insulting viewpoints aired in the article, it's our job as BC members to put that right, perhaps.

Today, having seen his website, I am astonished I am also INCENSED beyond belief. Who does this idiot think he is? Is he 10 years old?

I am fully behind UKB and whatever we can do to stop this. The blog on his website is particularly offensive - to me, let alone the poor conservation officer.

This being a family forum prevents me from using the language I want to describe this man and how I feel about his behaviour.

I certainly think we should contact central office. Perhaps write to other MPs? I will be writing to mine to complain, along with David Cameron, for good measure.

I'm glad Roger has posted the link to the Quantocks petition - I was going to do that today as I too had the email from 38 degrees yesterday. I too visit the area often, when I'm in Somerset. Please sign!

Lee

I've had another look at Piddell-hyphen-Grunger's blog:

http://www.liddellgrainger.org.uk/local ... ERPIE.html

I really cannot believe what He (the capital H is deliberate) has written.

We are all with you Jenny Plackett on this one. But I have a sneaking suspicion that Piddell-hyphen-Grunger will soon realise that he has made a complete ass of himself and the reaction —if we can get it out into the public domain — will be disastrous for Him and could perversely be good for butterflies in the longer term.

Jack