www.ukbutterflies.co.uk

I've almost completed editing the footage for two discs but have a couple of clips I'm unsure of. I've put them together on this video clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNKO0UPqFwI[/video]

1. I had down as Chapman's Blue but I'm now leaning towards Escher's Blue.

2. and 3. I had as Purple-edged Copper female brown form but not 100% certain, especially of the second clip.

4. I think could be Pearl-bordered Fritillary with paler brown markings as opposed to the normal dark markings.

5. I think is Large Grizzled Skipper but not sure.

Thanks for looking.

Hi Paul,

Of what I can comment on, I think your copper is a female Sooty, based on a comment of Guy's from one of my ID request threads: "Sooty copper also has more crowded uns, with a group of four spots in the middle (usually), not three".

I think your Frit is Weaver's not Pearl Bordered.

Cheers

Lee

Hi Lee

Thanks for looking. I have the feeling that of the two copper clips the first may be Purple-edged female as it has a shiny quality to the upperwing or what can be seen of it but the second may well be Sooty or even the first for that matter judging by my ID skills.

I'm fairly certain the Frit is either Titania's or Pearl-bordered as I can only remember seeing these two at this particular site but I may be wrong with that also. I would rather it be Weavers as I don't have any great video of that species.

Thanks again Lee.

Having seen Weaver's Fritillaries this year, I ought to be able to identify one immediately, but try as I might, I remain unconvinced by this one. If you had even a brief glimpse of the underside then that would be definitive.

Sorry David no underside I'm afraid.

I saw Weavers, Titania's and Pearl-bordered all within a couple of days of each other.

You're dead right with a show of underside it would be a easy.

I'm hoping Guy may have a definitive way of telling these apart from the upperside alone.

Thanks again.

The spots seem too large for it to be PBF, and the hindwing does look very angular if you freeze frame the very earliest shot.

Weaver's is probably favourite but could it have been Cranberry (they also have angular hindwings)?

I would go for Weaver's as spotting not right for PBF imho and assuming medium size, doesn't look like the Cranberries I have seen, unless it were really small as that is their most striking feature. If it were big, I would go for Titania's. Oh and yes, size is notoriously variable, but not so much with Frits in what experience I have. I hope this is helpful, remembering I gaff regularly

Good point Rev. I think it was too large for Cranberry so Weaver's is looking favourite at the moment.

Thanks Guys.

I'm still playing very much catch-up, I'm afraid, but here are the Swiss votes:

I'm very confident the coppers are sooty, for the reason Lee gives. Sooty coppers have crowded uns and usually (though not always) a group of four spots making a kind of 'southern cross' in the middle of the hindwing:



Purple-edged is less crowded and there are usually three spots there:



The wing shape is also good for sooty and the first one shows its ups.

I think the fritillaries are tit frits. There are some good upperside guides, though probably none is definitive on its own. These are:

... the distance of the pd spots from the submarginal spots. In pearl-bordered and to a lesser extent violet there is a sizeable gap between the round spots and the chevrons, or floating triangles. In tit frit the gap is smaller, especially on the hindwing. I think of it as a row of chess pawns around the hindwing, with the round spots being the heads. In a typical pearl-bordered frit you don't get the 'pawn' effect (because the heads are separated from the bodies);

... the shape of the submarginal chevrons. In violet fritillary they are relatively narrowly defined, with an angled base. In tit frit the base is flatter, making the chevrons more triangular and less chevron - and again adding to the impression of a row of pawns around the hindwing;

... the wing shape. In pearl-bordered the leading edge of the hindwing is rather smoothly rounded. In tit frit it is more angular and in violet it is very angular. I have to say it looks very angular in the first of Paul's frits, but compare with this genuine tit frit, which is also quite angular:



The books don't show it that extreme!

So - tit frit is my preference for both of those.

The skipper is classic large grizzly from what I can see.

Guy

Forgot to say - with that heavy branding I'd go for female escheri.

Guy

Awesome interjection, Guy. Just shows there's no substitute for seeing these species in the field.

Many thanks Guy for the ID's with very helpful explanations.

Hope to hear from your diary before it gets too cold out there.

All the best.

Paul

It snowed yesterday to just above the village and although today's sun melted most of it the mountains look beautifully white above a certain level. I was on lunchtime duty wandering around town, looking for smokers, drinkers and fornicators (I didn't find any), and although it was a beautiful, shirt-sleeves day there was not a butterfly to be seen.

Last year we had early snow, followed by a warm autumn (bringing out that October green hairstreak). I rather hope it will be just cold this year, to give the hibernators a real chance.

Guy

padfield wrote:It snowed yesterday to just above the village

Give us a few more weeks before we get depressed, eh Guy?

BTW, at what altitude is your village?

Villars, where I work, is about 1250m. The snow was not far above this - maybe 1400m. But this kind of early icing is usually just a flash in the pan. The snow that stays falls from mid-November.

I do hope to get out next weekend and find a few autumn species to post in the diary - my recent accident confined me to barracks.

Guy

Can't wait to see a few more of those famous GP photos in your diary.

Hope you manage to get out soon.

All the best.

padfield wrote:Villars, where I work, is about 1250m. The snow was not far above this - maybe 1400m. But this kind of early icing is usually just a flash in the pan. The snow that stays falls from mid-November.

I do hope to get out next weekend and find a few autumn species to post in the diary - my recent accident confined me to barracks.

Guy

How far into Switzerland is your village, Guy?

It's about an hour and a half from Geneva, David, travelling east along the lake and then up into the mountains.

Guy