www.ukbutterflies.co.uk

Here are some video's that I am not sure of the ID.

First is two Grizzled Skippers. Both were filmed at altitudes above 2000m and the first (Number 1) was filmed in the alpine highlands of the upper Saastal. I have tentatively recorded both as Alpine Grizzled Skipper but from memory the first was considerably larger than the second. It was also at a site Guy mentioned that Alpine Grizzled flies but was almost over matching the tatty appearance. The second was found at the upper end of the Val d'Herens at over 2000 metres also.
Both difficult as only upper wing surfaces and very worn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlMq2Ue1KF4[/video]

These next I have down as Carline Skipper but these seem to be extremely variable as discussed when attempting to ID our photos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMz2-m1DczU[/video]

These next two I have as Grizzled Skipper and the last on the clip slowed down as it was filmed for less than 1 second I think was possibly Dusky Grizzled Skipper. Apologies for the poor footage of upper wing surface only but you get what you get with wildlife.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbJc9xGAJ8k[/video]

More Pyrgus with possible Oberthurs but and looking I think there may be two different species on these next clips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25AaeLR9ibg[/video]

Last one. I thought may have been Olive Skipper but it looks very similar to the first butterfly of the previous clip. Help!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu4d6dOR7cg[/video]

Thats it for the time being. I need to get all these ID'd before I begin preparing a film of the holiday.

Thanks for looking.

Hi Paul. There's a mixture of easy and difficult here! I'll do the easy ones now and leave the difficult ones for when I have more time, I hope tomorrow. Or one of the other Pyrgus fans might jump in and do them first, saving me embarrassment!

Video 1 is difficult, because the key features of andromedae are missing or not clearly visible in these individuals and it's difficult to get the jizz with them being so worn. Andromedae is possible, but not instantly provable here.

Video 2 - at least some of those are very good for alveus, but I need to go through that lot carefully.

Video 3 - Yay! Malvae, malvae, malvae, cacaliae, as you correctly suggested.

Video 4 - The second one is definitely carthami - the first one is definitely not.

Video 5 - My guess for the first one is alveus (definitely not serratulae, which you suggested), but again, I'll come back to that. Alveus is very common in Switzerland. The second is definitely cacaliae. I can be so certain because you kindly showed the uns, which are definitive. Look at the base of s2 on the hindwing - no white spot.

More tomorrow, after others have had a go!!

Guy

Thanks Guy.

I'll look forward to your next viewing tomorrow. Something for me on a dull day at work.

All the best

I think the first butterfly of video 4 may have been one you debated the ID of and went for Oberthurs in the end after consulting literature at home Guy.

It was filmed at the lower level site in the Val d'Herens.

Right!

I think both the skippers on video 1 are probably andromedae. There is usually, but not always, a third spot visible above the two basal spots in s1 - not in your pictures. But those two spots are linear and clearly separate, something indicative of andromedae. The condition of the insects is correct, as you point out, and there are relatively few options at that locality.

The first one in video 2 I think might well be carlinae. For the others I'm more inclined towards alveus, despite the apparent golden hue of the uns on one. You could also read that as a 'don't know'.

The first one in video 4 is not the individual I have photos of that I eventually put down as armoricanus. Most noticeably, the discoidal spot on the forewing is much thinner and the forewing spots are much smaller. It has the appearance of alveus but I wouldn't even stake half a pint of fizzy Swiss lager on that.

For the DVD, if you show unidentified Pyrgus individuals, I would suggest a commentary along the lines of: 'Alpine meadows abound with different species of Pyrgus skippers - related to the British grizzled skipper. While many can be confidently identified, there are always individuals that even the experts have difficulty assigning without killing and examining the genitalia'.

Or is that a cop-out?

Guy

Hello Guy

Thats not really a cop out at all especially considering some of the video only shows upper wing shots or individuals that are extremely worn. I don't think there is anything wrong with saying a specimen is suspected to be a certain species but cannot be identified 100% due to variation in individuals and I think its a good thing to point out that we don't like to kill a butterfly just to confirm an ID. I like you, would much rather muse over a picture or some film footage rather than peer at the disected genitalia of the unfortunate that was captured and killed. We don't need to know and they sure as hell would rather be alive.

Thanks for looking again. I'll post some more footage soon, hopefully a bit easier to ID.

All the best.