www.ukbutterflies.co.uk

Hi There
I recently posted the secretary of my local Friends group two pictures of the Cemetery the group supports:
I asked her which one she thought was the most attractive, and which one she thought was better for wildlife.
Strangely, I have had no reply.
I wonder why? Judge for yourselves... N

Some of the coffins have collapsed (as they do of course in time) and the masonry has subsided as a result.

Does the cemetery have a western wall Nick? and is the area within the western wall free of obvious plots? Just out of interest...

Are there a lot of plots without known living relatives? Is it policy to reuse plots in the cemetery? (not that any of this is relevant to your question).

How easy does the group find it to balance the needs and expectations of the next of kin (tidy plots, well mow grass etc.) with the desire for the cemetary to have 'wildlife value'?

Felix
To put it in context - the cemetery is on a wide, old gravel river-terrace, which, prior to being a cemetery, had been part of the old university cricket ground, and before that, either orchards or lightly-grazed hay meadow. The area is well-drained, and the soils light, neutral/slightly calcareous in nature and to our knowledge has never been under the plough; it is listed in the local Cambridge plan as an area of Local Nature Conservation Importance, not least because of the flora. It has all those indicator species one would expect from an example of undisturbed neutral/calcareous grassland, which, in effect, it has been for the last 300 years at least.

Of the estimated 20,000+ people interred in there, only a handful of graves are regularly tended and there are only 2 or 3 free spaces available where some family own a plot - we have had 2 burials in the last 12 years. It was consecrated in 1848, not least because the cholera and typhus/typhoid epidemics in Cambridge in the 1840's had literally filled the 13 city parish graveyards to overflowing, and, not to put a finer point on it, they stank!

There are some 13 listed graves, to which we keep access and clear of undergrowth as well as around 30 war graves, which are also kept clear - and also maintained, replaced or cleaned by the War Graves commission, who continue to honour their service - as well as where families request it. It was closed - that is, for new burials - in the early 1950's, when a fabulous example of an early Victorian Gothic chapel (designed by George Gilbert Scott) was demolished as it had fallen into disrepair. Despite being "closed" the cemetery remained consecrated ground and was given-over, in Trust, from the Diocese of Ely, for the people of Cambridge to enjoy as a public place, as it had always been intended. For the next 25 years or so, the cemetery was left pretty-much alone, got over-grown - and produced a wildlife reserve that boasted rabbits and tawny owls, right in the city centre!
From about 1990, it started to get managed - and that is when the rot started - at least for the wildlife
First they started by mowing back the grass between the graves, then started on "tidying-up" the "mess of brambles and bushes" - forgetting that some of God's own creatures were actually living in that "mess". First to go were the rabbits - too many dog-walkers and lack of cover - closely followed by the owls - no mice to hunt on a lawn - though the weasels live-on, as do the European dormice that have been there (and in the surrounding gardens) for at least 15 years, though no one from "officialdom" recognises their presence.
Now, the history and restoration lot have got stuck in, and, bit by bit, wildlife habitat is being denuded and biodiversity reduced. Their inability to accept that it does make a difference to the whole eco-system if they "..just take out these few bushes. There's plenty more in here...", belies the fact that they are intelligent people. That is precisely the attitude that has lost us 75% of our song-birds and butterflies in my lifetime. They even suggest to me that, "..the things that are living in those bushes can go and live in the next one, surely?". Sure, and no doubt, the next time someone in their street is made homeless, they will be glad to share their homes with them, since that is what they are suggesting the animals do!
So, forgive me Felix, if we differ on the subject of what is and is not respectful. To me, personally, I would rather celebrate the living things in the cemetery; there are plenty of reminders of how short and brutish life is all around. And I would much rather honour those who left a simple patch of earth, that supports life, than pander to the vain-glory of those who were deemed worthy enough to leave some great stone edifice, that does not. I feel that someone of a higher authority is probably best-placed to decide who is worthy and who is not; once we enter the ground, we are all the same.

http://www.millroadcemetery.org.uk/Mill ... /Home.aspx
When I find your bruised and battered corpse
..I will find a little spot for a shallow-grave under a newly-planted tree, by the western side, and carefully slip you in....
N

Oh! You two, like Greek gods warring in the heavens.

Oh! Can I be Adonis...?

Hmm! Dunno, how are your abdominals, and are you blue?

..on second thoughts, I would prefer the epithet, "Peter Porcupine"...
..if it hadn't already been taken..
N

Fascinating Nick. Thanks for taking the time to compose such a comprehensive response.

nickB wrote:only a handful of graves are regularly tended and there are only 2 or 3 free spaces available where some family own a plot - we have had 2 burials in the last 12 years.

In which case why is it being so heavily 'managed'?

We do not differ that much in opinion here Nick; for although I feel compelled to tend my own ancestors plots, I am also a huge fan of "neglected" cemeteries and graveyards, and well understand the role that they play in providing valuable habitats and ecosystems. Were the family lineage to be severed (by Michaeljf for example ), I would be quite content for the graves to gradually melt away into the wilderness. I do not expect anyone else to tend my family's memorials. I only do this now out of respect and that because I know that they would have appreciated my doing so.

nickb wrote:Now, the history and restoration lot have got stuck in

Given that there are only a handful of graves being actively tended by next of kin, I can not understand why a balance can not be struck between the preservation of the site as a valuable piece of local history with (perhaps) some interesting monumental architecture, and the value of the site from a wildlife perspective.

A great shame, and I can understand your frustration at this.

Felix.

All of this discussion is totally illogical to me. I have no arguement for or against, or a historical opinion... Which is where i want to be.

Felix wrote:Ps: The western wall. Historically (and right into the 20th century) it was customary to bury still born, and those that perished prior to being christened, just within the western wall and without a marker. The ground was often left unconsecrated for this purpose and the infants were laid to rest here usually at night. Having died before being christened they could not be buried on consecrated ground.

Picture the scene: Drapes twitch in the village as the husband of a woman who until that very night was heavy with child, steals through the streets under cover of darkness, navigating by hurricane lamp towards the church yard, a small crudely made wooden casket under his arm. The man can sense the eyes of the entire hamlet watching him as he stumbles on through his grief towards the church yard. There the priest greets him and together his lost child is laid, without any marker, in a hollow in the earth against the western wall.

Blimey...there's so much more to this site than just butterflies! I didn't know any of that, Felix.

Thanks for the explanation, Felix. And, yes, it is a great shame!
I think I now know where all my still-born ideas are buried....

Zonda wrote:All of this discussion is totally illogical to me. I have no arguement for or against, or a historical opinion... Which is where i want to be.

...Bliss?
N

Felix wrote:We do not differ that much in opinion here Nick; for although I feel compelled to tend my own ancestors plots, I am also a huge fan of "neglected" cemeteries and graveyards, and well understand the role that they play in providing valuable habitats and ecosystems. Were the family lineage to be severed (by Michaeljf for example ), I would be quite content for the graves to gradually melt away into the wilderness. I do not expect anyone else to tend my family's memorials. I only do this now out of respect and that because I know that they would have appreciated my doing so.

Ooh...graves and death. You've really started a debate now! Fear not Felix, I am not about to severe your lineage (oh, painful). My wife loves visting old graves (I don't know why, it's something to do with Norfolk) but I expect to be cremated, and I don't really want to be taking up some space in a graveyard. I know there's a 'eco-friendly' plot over Monmouthshire way where folks decay naturally (is this a good thing? I suppose so). Anyway, back to the question of the keep of a Graveyard - the best one I saw was in Gibraltar last year. The graves were amongst flower beds, the flower beds had Milkweed plants, and the Milkweed plants had Monarch Butterflies visiting them! If there is such a thing as a good graveyard this was it.

But hey ho, there's no God and we're all going to die sometime. Enjoy your life

Re: To mow or not to mow...?

Unread postby NickB » Wed May 11, 2011 6:44 pm

Zonda wrote:All of this discussion is totally illogical to me. I have no arguement for or against, or a historical opinion... Which is where i want to be.



...Bliss?
N

It is.

Michaeljf wrote:... Anyway, back to the question of the keep of a Graveyard - the best one I saw was in Gibraltar last year. The graves were amongst flower beds, the flower beds had Milkweed plants, and the Milkweed plants had Monarch Butterflies visiting them! If there is such a thing as a good graveyard this was it.

I have spent a lot of time in that cemetery, Michael. In fact, I buried someone there, way back in 1983. It was a black seaman, George, from Sierra Leone, who was critically injured when the ship's boiler exploded. He lay in hospital, patiently, and I visited him every day (it was my job, as the 'Flying Angel'). One day, he said to me that he had lied to everyone about his name and address, because he didn't trust them in the hospital - they didn't understand his culture and they made jokes. He told me he was going to die that night, because he had had enough of life, and gave me his name and his wife's name and telephone number.

The next day, the Dean of Gibraltar rang me to say George was dead and no one could contact his family. So the job of announcing his death fell to me.

We buried George with due ceremony and a simple wooden cross in the northern part of the cemetery. When I visited a few years ago I couldn't find his grave.

'Can storied urn or animated bust
Back to its mansion call the fleeting breath?
Can Honour's voice provoke the silent dust,
Or Flattery soothe the dull cold ear of Death?'

Changing tack, that cemetery is also pretty well the only place in Europe that Zeller's skipper has been recorded! And it's a great place to watch lesser kestrels in the north face of the Rock.

Guy

This is a most informative thread!

But that's a sad story Guy. Did you ever find his grave after that?

Lee

Hi Guy,
I briefly saw your story at lunch-time. I know there are sad elements but I think it's great that even though George was suffering, he found someone he could trust and place his future in, even though that would have been a burden on you. I know it's a shame if you couldn't find his grave but you know you gave him some dignity and gave his wife closure no doubt. I'd call you 'Christian' in the best sense of the word. And again, that is a lovely cemetry to be buried in.

'I must go down to the seas again, to the vagrant gypsy life,
To the gull's way and the whale's way, where the wind's like a whetted knife;
And all I ask is a merry yarn from a laughing fellow-rover,
And quiet sleep and a sweet dream when the long trick's over.'

(from 'Sea Fever', by John Masefield)

Michael

Oh - just remembered - another good cemetery is the one that Chris Packham covered recently in the excellent ' The animal's guide to Britain' (BBC2 series) where the wild Hares had found a great place to eat and shelter in their local Cemetery. They were also eating a lot of the dead flowers left by the family relatives on the graves...probably not what the relatives wanted to hear but the Hares looked beautiful. And after all, the countryside is theirs really..

Michael

Felix wrote:The western wall. Historically (and right into the 20th century) it was customary to bury still born, and those that perished prior to being christened, just within the western wall and without a marker. The ground was often left unconsecrated for this purpose and the infants were laid to rest here usually at night. Having died before being christened they could not be buried on consecrated ground.

Outside the western wall of Maker Church in Cornwall and beside the car park there is a grave and a fine marble memorial stone of an adult, if I remember correctly, of C19. I have always assumed that it must be the last resting place of a much loved suicide.

Hi Lee and Michael,

I expect George is still there, and it may be possible to find out, but the last time I visited Gibraltar the one person still on the Rock who was present at the ceremony was ill in hospital himself, in Spain, and I didn't meet him. I doubt the wooden cross will still bear his name legibly after nearly thirty years.

I was the Flying Angel there for my year off before going to university, and it was probably the most educational year of my life. I visited, and was welcomed onto, every merchant ship that called into Gibraltar and was taken in by the local community of seamen and stevedores a bit like a stray puppy. Only the QEII politely refused me entry, quite understandably! Probably a bit stupid of me to try and get on, but at least I can say I've been up the steps of the QEII...

Sorry to sidetrack your thread, Nick - it was the mention of Gibraltar cemetery that got me reminiscing!

Guy