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I was at a butterfly recorders meeting on Saturday and a list of protected species in NI came up and on the list was Real's Wood White. It was mentioned that there was a new way to be sure what your seeing is Real's Wood White and not just a Wood White was to watch their courtship. Apparently Wood White (Leptidea sinapis) when in courtship, when it flicks its wings, you can hear a click as it beats the wings together. Real's Wood White does not make this click sound with its wings and this is a way of telling the two species as real's is protected you cannot take and dissect one, which is what we are trying to discourage with this species and looking at other ways of telling both wood whites apart. So far the evidence in Ireland is that sinapis is only known to be found at the Burren in Co Clare and everywhere else has Real's.

So, anyone who has seen sinapis in courtship, does it make a click with its wings when in courtship?

Dave McCormick wrote:I was at a butterfly recorders meeting on Saturday and a list of protected species in NI came up and on the list was Real's Wood White. It was mentioned that there was a new way to be sure of Real's Wood White was to watch their courtship. Apparently Wood White (Leptidea sinapis) when in courtship beats its wings and you can hear the wings clap if you listen carefully enough when one adult flaps them while in courtship. Real's doesn't make this clapping sound but I haven't had any experience with the Wood White, but does anyone know if Wood whites do make a clapping sound with their wings while in courtship?

It was in a topic that even though Real's Wood White is protected in NI, the only way to be sure if that's it and not sinapis is to catch and dissect one, which when protected you cannot do, but the clapping in courtship may be a way of telling if the wood white clapping is true.

Hi Dave - I've seen many courting Wood White and have *never* heard any clapping sound. Anyway - it doesn't really help when you have a non-courting individual (but I assume was intended to ID colonies, on the assumption that one species is present)! Or, where the species overlap, it won't help should the two species attempt to court one other (although I would hesitate to guess that certain pheromones help them determine if an individual is of the same species).

Cheers,

- Pete

In this clip, which I took some years ago, you can hear the first wing clap, apparently, but not the subsequent ones. The first might have been an illusion. There's too much background noise in the whole thing, but at least it illustrates the wing clapping for those who have not seen it.

I believe these are sinapis, not reali.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0Xqd74dcYE[/video]

It's short because some cyclists came past and disturbed us.

Guy

Hi Dave,

I don't have literature to hand so this is a bit of a vague posting, but...

Wood Whites have the well-known 'wing flicking whilst head to head display' which I've enjoyed watching at 2ft range. The male extends his proboscis over the female's body, presumably soaking up pheromones? Absolutely brilliant to watch! Can't honestly say I've HEARD the wings clapping/flicking, but that's not to say it doesn't happen.

Real's Wood White has a similar display but lacks the wing flicks. So, in theory, if the wings are flicked it's Wood White and you ought to be on The Burren. Apparently there's a 10km wide buffer zone around The Burren in which neither species occurs?

Also, there's a difference in the underside of the antennal tips. I can't recall which way round it is, but one of them has longer and narrower white lozenges than the other. That could be diagnostic and any specimen netted or closely viewed should be identifiable.

Lastly, the dark markings on the wingtips appear more intensely coloured (to the buterflies who are viewing in the ultraviolet spectrum) in one species than the other. But I don't think there's a visual discernible difference for we mere humans!

Apologies if some of that is garbled or nonsense. But certainly there are means to identifying individuals without needing to dissect them!

Cheers,

Gibster.

Gibster wrote:Also, there's a difference in the underside of the antennal tips. I can't recall which way round it is, but one of them has longer and narrower white lozenges than the other. That could be diagnostic and any specimen netted or closely viewed should be identifiable.

Lastly, the dark markings on the wingtips appear more intensely coloured (to the buterflies who are viewing in the ultraviolet spectrum) in one species than the other. But I don't think there's a visual discernible difference for we mere humans!

That's very interesting info - do you have a source, Gibster?

I've read more than one study on the differences in wing markings and colour, some of which refer to locally variable features which only hold as diagnostic within certain regions (thinking Europe-wide, here). The one I currently use (having blind-tested it for the Swiss recorder on known specimens) is given here:

http://www.pieris.ch/diagnostik/s_reali_01.html

All the specimens I tested it on were taken in Switzerland - it doesn't hold good for the UK specimens illustrated on UK Butterflies.

The antennal criterion in particular interests me. At the moment, it is difficult to build up an ecological picture of the two species without rampant killing, which so far as I am concerned is not worth it. In principle you could use the ultraviolet markings in the field, with specialist equipment, but if there reali is an antennal distinction only a net would be required.

Guy

padfield wrote: but if there reali is

Good work, Guy!

Cheers

Lee

Thanks for all the information. I'll try and get a good photo of one this year as all I have are not so good. Havn't yet seen courting reals wood whites so have to do that too.