www.ukbutterflies.co.uk

After the forest sell off debacle I knew it wouldn't be long before I found something new to whinge about. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gardening/83 ... -peat.html

How dare Butterfly Conservation support this idea without consulting its membership? I purposely went out and bought peat based seed compost because I find it the best for germinating and pricking out seedlings and I don't see why I should be taxed for this, because all my seedlings are wild flowers to be planted for
... Butterfly Conservation.

In practice the the companies that make and sells composts haven't yet come up with anything as fine as a peat based compost, probably because they are not prepared to let the raw products compost down for long enough before marketing them. Corporate greed and who cares about the customers' needs IMHO

Peat based compost is not sustainable I'm afraid.

Sorry John, but I think that peat based products should be so expensive as to greatly reduce the quantity sold; the theory being that as a result of the significant cost, only people who really need peat (such as orchid enthusiasts of which there are few) will purchase it.

Currently, there are many thousands of gardeners who don't care to read the labels on composts and will happily purchase peat based products simply because it is the brand that they have always purchased, or because there is some sort of offer on at the garden centre. If the costs of peat based products were to increase significantly all these gardeners who don't actually need peat products would react by choosing something a little cheaper (and peat free).

Corporate greed wouldn't be a relevant issue, because as the price of peat products increased the volume of products sold would fall. Additionally, the article you have cited declares that the money raised from this initiative shall be going towards wildlife conservation, so I am not sure where you are coming from there...

From a personal perspective I always buy peat free and don't have any trouble in germinating seeds for the garden or the allotment.

I can only really echo the statement in the article...

“It really is incredible that a product as hugely damaging to our environment as peat is still being widely consumed in the UK. A financial incentive is vital if we are to change the behaviour of consumers and encourage the horticultural industry to invest in alternatives. Rigorous studies have shown that good peat free composts work just as well – Kew Gardens is just one notable example of a peat free garden which is thriving."

Felix.

Felix wrote:“It really is incredible that a product as hugely damaging to our environment as peat is still being widely consumed in the UK.

I'm guessing that was a simple typo?

Next we'll have folks joining "Ban The Whale" protests

Seriously though - peat digging centuries ago was a necessary, or maybe even vital, element of country life in a possibly harsh environment. Nowadays the wide-scale destruction of peat bogs should be outlawed. Subsistence farming is one thing. Growing veg in your plot is quite another and does not justify the destruction of an ancient ecosystem which cannot recover. Simple.

Gibster.

i'm not a member of butterfly conservation (i hear all the gasps of shock and tuts from here but i have my reasons) but i thought they were about conserving butterflies and thier habitats and not about placating the membership. I don't think there is a single conservation body or even the RHS http://www.rhs.org.uk/Gardening/Sustain ... e-gardener that is in favour of using peat. they can't all be wrong surely.
if it's any consolation you can produce wildflower gardens without peat and without having to water them too so don't despair.
chris

if it's any consolation you can produce wildflower gardens without peat and without having to water them too so don't despair

In fact, I have found from my own experience, many wild flowers and grasses prefer poor dry soil, so using peat is counter productive, keeping the soil wet and that in turn attracts slugs etc.

I use my home made compost for seeds and young plants, and then set them in the garden where they do just fine.

I for one stopped using peat products several years ago when I understood the impact of this non sustainable resource. I haven't regretted it at all, and in my opinion BC are quite correct to back this.

I quite agree that peat extraction for gardens is not sustainable, but as a member of both BC and the RHS I have to disagree with the RHS findings on their recent trials. I have tried the peat substitutes and I am not happy with them and neither are some of the experts when asked privately. (This is the first year that I haven't indulged in my usual hobby of raising various ericaceous seedlings but given my greenhouse over to plants for insects) But tax it? How many other taxes have we had imposed that were supposed to be used for various good causes and just end up in the general pot?

Wouldn't it be better to prohibit the import of peat and to penalise the British peat producers by a green levy to be used on restoring the workings. This would force up the price of peat products and the general public would buy the cheaper alternatives?

I just resent being told what I can and can't do, especially by so called charitable organisations, I might support the objects of the charity but like turkeys I won't vote for Christmas.

This is the first year that I haven't indulged in my usual hobby of raising various ericaceous seedlings but given my greenhouse over to plants for insects

I am interested to know in what way your planting is "for" insects?

Are you planting nectar rich plants to attract the adult insects into your garden? or are you planting plant species that are chosen as food plants for larval stages?

Except at times of severe drought, the adult butterflies rarely suffer from a lack of nectar sources, so nectar rich plants in your garden aren't really "benefiting" insects - just diverting them from one source to another.

The planting of suitable larval food plants such as stinging nettles, thistles, holly and ivy, cabbages, wild grasses, vetches, wild violets, blackthorn, oak, elm, cuckoo flower, honeysuckle (I could go on) don't really need peat, and most prefer a poor soil.

If you are trying to grow something in your garden that won't grow there without peat - then I suggest you grow something else!

Your encouragement of the industry of peat extraction is irreversibly destroying one of the world's most rare and diverse habitats.

I agree that peat extraction shouldn't be taxed heavily.
It should be banned altogether.

.....green levy to be used on restoring the workings.

I am afraid tht once peat is dug it cannot be replaced for hundreds of years.

Rogerdodge wrote:Your encouragement of the industry of peat extraction is irreversibly destroying one of the world's most rare and diverse habitats.

I agree that peat extraction shouldn't be taxed heavily.
It should be banned altogether.

Just in case you're not sure which side of the fence you ought to be sitting on...

this is an example of how peat digging used to be, note WHY it was dug up: http://www.witherslack.org/lid/index.asp?intID=763

Obviously things have progressed since then! For instance, this is what's happening in Ireland right now: http://www.independent.co.uk/environmen ... 88138.html

This was Estonia EIGHT years ago: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... ws.science What a disgusting situation.

Even Natural England have this to say: http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/region ... 80310.aspx

And http://www.ehow.com/list_6772491_negati ... moss_.html

If you use peat for 'recreational' purposes, please would you consider using a peat-free alternative. And ask your friends too. I saw my first ever Large Heaths last year. It would be lovely (and hopefully I'm not being too naive here) to think that I could still see them flourishing in another 20 years time.

is not all doom and gloom however (I am not condoning the continued extraction of peat of course, just injecting a little positive vibe) as anyone who has visited Shapwick Heath, Westhay Moor, and the Avalon Marshes will understand.

I recall well when I was a youngster that the entire area was peat digging as far as the eye could see, trench after trench about 5' deep and 2' wide, right down to the clay bed. A great black desert. I played for hours amongst the trenches and the extraction machinery, looking for evidence of neolithic track ways by examining the sheer sides of the trenches.

Now of course the former peat diggings are a massive nature reserve and valuable wetland habitat with many rare species of flora and fauna.

Felix.

loved the first line of the telegraph article "British gardeners are wrecking Ireland's environment by buying peat cut from nature reserves, leaving vast areas of countryside barren." ermm ....sort off, surely it's the fault of the land owners, the companies that dig it, the governments that allow the import and export, the companies that sell it AND british gardeners. but us poor consumers can only buy what's on the shelves.
One of the things i like about these discussions is i find myself looking into things deeper for facts and figures. And i was pleased to find this "Consultation on reducing the horticultural use of peat in England 2010" http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/consu ... condoc.pdf so at least the government is considering doing something about it. Though you have to get about half way through before they start talking about "amateur gardeners".

Chris

JohnR wrote: In practice the the companies that make and sells composts haven't yet come up with anything as fine as a peat based compost, probably because they are not prepared to let the raw products compost down for long enough before marketing them. Corporate greed and who cares about the customers' needs IMHO

I agree with you in regard to the peat substitutes being woefully inadequate. I've not found anything near as good as the real thing insofar as gardening is concerned either. I haven't bought peat for years (except for peat pots which you can stick straight into the garden) but will be very pleased when something as good is developed.

I have always been against using peat, takes 10 years for 1 square cm to be formed. Relatives of mine own a bog which they are protecting but use a little for themselves but its not on the main bog but on a green grassy area used for grazing cattle.

There is a bog in Donegal that is being restored as it was cut for peat for a long time, it will take years as its but a worthwhile conservation effort (Think that was a couple of years ago when that started)

I was in Montiaghs Moss in south Antrim (a large raised cutover bog about 373.82 acres or 0.58 square miles) you could see squares where the peat was dug up for years but now an ASSI site and these areas have filled in with water (drains and pools from the extent of cutting) and support the most diverse numbers of dragonflies and damsels in Ireland including Irish Damselfly, Four-spotted Chaser, Common Darter and Emperors also other water life exists there such as water beetles and caddisflies and china mark moths. Has one of the most diverse species of butterflies and moths including Large Heath, Marsh Fritillary, Common Blue, Green Hairstreak, Silver Hook-tip, Eyed Hawk-moth, Pebble Prominent etc...

There is other ways of getting compost for your garden that would work well without peat. I am trying to get others to use things other than peat, a few people I know now create their own compost piles as I wish to do in future. There is no need to use peat for such a purpose.

From the BC website today:

http://www.butterfly-conservation.org/a ... _peat.html

Cheers

Lee

This from Birdguides today http://www.birdguides.com/webzine/article.asp?a=2588

My own immediate thought was why the heck suggest a 20-year phase out plan? Surely 20 months is more than enough to stop this incredibly damaging practice? And no, I really don't think I'm over-reacting.

Gibster.

I'd prefer 20 hours. It is not as if the suppliers have had no notice.

Matsukaze wrote:I'd prefer 20 hours. It is not as if the suppliers have had no notice.

Very well put.

Matsukaze wrote:I'd prefer 20 hours. It is not as if the suppliers have had no notice.

Well put, they could easily do without selling it, there are other alternatives readily available anyway. 20 years is enough time to do too much damage. You can't save peat bogs with such a long time scale like that you have to be firm in situations like this

I was at Mullenakill Bog (Means Church on the hill) on Saturday which is at Peatlands Park in Dungannon and its the only area of intact raised bog in Northern Ireland. It feels different to walk on it than it does on cutover bogs that have had some cutting in past. Cutover bogs you can feel you start to sink in areas that have been cut as they get wetter ad fill up with water and vegetation grows over it, but with this intact bog, it feels spongy on foot, wet but you don't sink. Here is two images of the bog, one is of a tree in it that a friend of mine saw a cuckoo resting on last year and got many birders come to photograph it. Found several empty emperor moth cocoons (mice got two) and evidence of hares had been in the area. A small area had been burnt back but not sure why, it will regrow. I did notice a few areas had small clumps of rhododendron in it but these were small and hopefully they won't let it spread.

This bog was where Bordered Grey moth was found last year and it is thought to be the rare (thought extinct) subspecies tyronensis. A friend of mine trapped quite a few and got eggs from a female which he is rearing as the adults he found seemed to be melanic as well as some normal ones. The Book Butterflies and Moths of Northern Ireland says about Thomas Greer (who was a very important Lepidopterist in his day)

Greer makes reference...to presence of the moth on bogs near Washing Bay in the south-west corner of Lough Neagh and the occurence of melanic adults. Adults from this area were considered to be smaller than average with a narrower marginal band on the forewing and were described as a distinct subspecies
tyronensis

It was thought this subspecies went extinct from here and was not found elsewhere until the possible find last year.

Going back here later this year to see Large Heath as its found here and I have never seen one. Defiantly know of the importance of such places like this. This area has a woodland at it called Annagariff and is the only place in Ireland that Scottish wood ants are found.

I was in a shop today and happened to glance a Northern Ireland farming newspaper front page. I didn't see much of it, but it said because of the rise in heating oil and gas prices, bogs that have remained untouched will end up being cut for peat to burn and it showed work had already started in a bog in Tyrone. I really hope this doesn't happen.