alveus vs. armoricanus
alveus vs. armoricanus
On August 25, 2009 I have snapped a grizzled skipper and I have identified one as Large Grizzled Skipper (Pyrgus alveus). But it may be also Oberthürs (P. armoricanus). Can solve on the pictures bellow if my determination is correct?
Jan Jurníček
Re: alveus vs. armoricanus
Doesn't the strongly marked hindwing upperside rule out alveus? - making armoricanus more likely ( or malvae)??.... Where taken??? 
PS... I;m guessing 
PS... I;m guessing Re: alveus vs. armoricanus
Taken in SE Moravia (Czech Republic) , exactly here. Malvae is ruled out because the array of the boundary white spots on the frontwing is missing.
Jan Jurníček
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Re: alveus vs. armoricanus
Just when I thought I was getting a grip on Pyrgus!!
This individual is quite unlike any alveus I have seen in Switzerland, France or Spain. The very strong central spot on the hindwing is not characteristic of western forms of the species. On the other hand, the weakly marked forewing doesn't look like the French or Spanish armoricanus I've seen either, and what can be seen of the underside doesn't look convincing! Nevertheless, of the two I would definitely plump for armoricanus over alveus.
It is probably impossible to be definitive from a photo. P. armoricanus is rare in Switzerland but last year Matt and I were convinced we had found an individual. This is it:
The best underside shot I could get was this:
We examined it in the hand and were both satisfied on all counts. The Swiss recorder rejected the record on the grounds that it could have been alveus. The dates suggested alveus rather than armoricanus, though in recent years flight seasons have been a bit screwed up and that was certainly not the decisive factor. The long and the short of it was that for some species, for example, armoricanus, proof is needed, in the form of a dead butterfly. Neither Matt nor I do that sort of proof, so our butterfly will remain a 'might-have-been'.
For the record, it is not necessarily the case that malvae has a submarginal line of white spots on the forewing. This ssp. malvoides (identification not in doubt) clearly lacks the spots, just like your insect:
This is a Swiss ssp. malvae (I think - the distribution of malvae/malvoides in Switzerland is unclear), similarly without those spots:
I don't think your insect is malvae though - it would really be very anomalous if it were!!
Guy
This individual is quite unlike any alveus I have seen in Switzerland, France or Spain. The very strong central spot on the hindwing is not characteristic of western forms of the species. On the other hand, the weakly marked forewing doesn't look like the French or Spanish armoricanus I've seen either, and what can be seen of the underside doesn't look convincing! Nevertheless, of the two I would definitely plump for armoricanus over alveus.
It is probably impossible to be definitive from a photo. P. armoricanus is rare in Switzerland but last year Matt and I were convinced we had found an individual. This is it:
The best underside shot I could get was this:
We examined it in the hand and were both satisfied on all counts. The Swiss recorder rejected the record on the grounds that it could have been alveus. The dates suggested alveus rather than armoricanus, though in recent years flight seasons have been a bit screwed up and that was certainly not the decisive factor. The long and the short of it was that for some species, for example, armoricanus, proof is needed, in the form of a dead butterfly. Neither Matt nor I do that sort of proof, so our butterfly will remain a 'might-have-been'.
For the record, it is not necessarily the case that malvae has a submarginal line of white spots on the forewing. This ssp. malvoides (identification not in doubt) clearly lacks the spots, just like your insect:
This is a Swiss ssp. malvae (I think - the distribution of malvae/malvoides in Switzerland is unclear), similarly without those spots:
I don't think your insect is malvae though - it would really be very anomalous if it were!!
Guy
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Re: alveus vs. armoricanus
Thans, Guy. Alveus is alleged on http://www.lepidoptera.cz as endangered while armoricanus as critically endangered. I only anticipate according this evidence that it is more probable to encounter alveus than armoricanus near me.
Jan Jurníček