www.ukbutterflies.co.uk

Hi,
I went to the RHS Wisley this morning to see the butterflies. Took a stack of photos (hand held) and not one of them was in focus. Now i know i usually use a tripod but this was ridiculous. The camera is my new Canon 7D and the lens is the Sigma 150 macro. It's the first time i have used these together. So I took some test shots this afternoon all on a tripod with a remote release. The first is the 7D and Sigma 150. You can see why my Wisley shots were rubbish. I then put the Sigma on my Canon 20D a (combination that I used all last year with no problems):
And finally I tried the7D with a Canon 100-400 set to 150mm:
The 7D/Canon 100-400 combination looks OK to me. The Canon 20D/Sigma 150 isn't so good, but the 7D/Sigma is absolutely awful.
It looks to me as though the problem is with the Sigma 150 although it is worse on the 7D than the 20D. So is the problem with the 7D or the Sigma 150 or both? Does anyone have any suggestions? Or do I need to micro-adjust the 7D for the Sigma lens? Has anyone tried this?
Any help/ideas much appreciated.
BTW they have been having problems at Wisley with the butterflies hatching. There were quite a few butterflies there but only 6 species. With Owls and Blue Morphos having by far the greatest numbers.
Thanks
Robin

Hi Robin,

If you want a suggestion - I suggest you find someone that has either a 7D or Sigma 150mm macro to figure out which is causing the problem. Given that the 20D is also producing below-par results, the lens may be awry. But searching the web, it seems that some 7D users are experiencing problems with the camera.

If you want to try a different 150mm lens, you're always welcome round

Cheers,

- Pete

Thanks, I was vaguely thinking about a Canon 7D for the video capability, but I will now look deeper into its compatibility with the Sigma 150 I currently have on my Canon 20D.

I’m not sure why you are having problems with the 20D/Sigma 150 combination. I find they work together quite well (some photos from this year http://www.butterfliesoffrance.com/2009 ... s_grid.htm) and I wonder if there’s something not quite connected or properly set up with your combination or maybe you have a defective lens (unless you have had good results with it previously).

Roger

Hi Robin, Lisa and myself just tested our 7Ds with Sigma 150's and there doesn't seem to be a problem with ours.

I think some people were experiencing problems with non sharp images on their 7Ds. I haven't had that problem, but I always set my camera to my own custom setting with the sharpness turned up.

I'll give the 7D / Sigma 150 combo a proper workout, out of doors tomorrow just to make doubly sure.

One of my favourite set ups is my 100-400 with an extension tube, tried the same set up on my 5D mk 2, and it worked like a pig, no idea why.

Regards Gruditch

Thanks for your input guys,
As Pete intimated, I should have trawled the web before posting here. Having done so, it seems that some Sigma lenses do not work too well with new Canon (and presumably other manufacturers as well) lenses. Apparently if there is a problem Sigma will re-chip the lens to meet the new cameras requirements. Now admittedly that was mostly in connection with Sigma zoom lenses.

Gary and Lisa's test seems to indicate that the 150 is OK. Gary, how old are your 150s?
I purchased mine in 2006 so maybe its age has something to do with it - like it's out of warranty

As you see the 7D works OK with the 100-400. I'll check it out with my other lenses (all Canon) tomorrow and then if they are all OK I'll phone Sigma to see what they say. I'll report back on my findings.
Thanks again,
Robin

Looking at some of the photography forums, there does seem to be a compatibility problem with the 7D and a small minority of third party lenses.

My 150 is about the same age as yours Robin, so I'm crossing my fingers. Let you know latter.

Regards Gruditch

I gave mine a proper test today with no problems.

Regards Gruditch

Well mine still stinks
All my other lenses were OK. I called Sigma and it's the current version and so doesn't need re-chipping.
Still its on its way to them in Welwyn to get their opinion.

Robin

Have you tried AF macroadjustment with the lens at all yet? I'd suggest that might fix the problem as it looks like it's out on both cameras so don't think the 7D is to fault... in fact this feature on the 7D, not available on your 40D I believe, might save you having to get it re-calibrated by Canon.

I've the 7D and the only prob I've had is Err 40 - appears to be a power issue (manual's hopeless but internet, as always, helpful). Irony is that I've had it with the Canon batts but not the clones (which are only 1/7th price! Typical!)

Works well with the Sigma 150-500mm but not tried the 105mm or 150mm (but will attempt to do so over the next week or so). Presumably, you're using AF, which as a rule I never use for macros anyway

oh yes good point... Try manual focussing. If that is sharp then focus adjustment should sort it.

Cant personally understand why most people dont get n with af for macro as i have rarely ever had issues with it even in the days of my 10d and af has only got better with every model.

FISHiEE wrote:Cant personally understand why most people dont get n with af for macro as i have rarely ever had issues with it even in the days of my 10d and af has only got better with every model.

Personally, find that I can MF much faster rather than alter the focus point and then AF (and that's if my focus lies under one of the FPs!). Often get the same with birds, but there I might use AF, alter comp and then finalise with MF. Having said all that the 7D's meant to be better (and has more FPs) so I might give AF another try

In the past I didn't use outer focus points all that often, and on the 30D I admit they did struggle sometimes if the area I was focusing on wasn't too contrasty. I just made sure I picked an area with a bit of contrast. My current 50D is way better on the outer points however so it's not much of an issue. I don't personally use the outer points all that much anyway for macro photography unless it's a distant shot or something deep like a dragonfly as I'm mostly shooting parallel to the subject so whatever the centre point is on is usually pretty good for getting everything in focus.

Changing focus points takes just a few seconds which isn't generally too much of an issue if I do need to. I might miss the odd shot but I can be sure that most of the ones I do get are bang on focus in an instant with the AF. I sure couldn't say that for my MF skills. I guess I've never really felt the need to use MF. Did try it when I got the 50D with live view to see if could get anything sharper with MF but after a few minites concluded there were only disadvantages for me with MF. AF was way faster and when just a fraction of a mm out on the focus can mean the difference between a good and a duff shot I feel my camera/lens combo can do it far better than I ever could just looking through the viewfinder.

On reason I tend to use MF is because the subject isn't always on a focusing point, and usually off-centre. Am I missing something?

Cheers,

- Pete

part of it must be on a focus point?

I don't tend to focus on the eye of a butterfly for example as it's in the same plane as the rest of it in most shots, so pretty much any part of it will do

FISHiEE wrote:part of it must be on a focus point?

Possibly - but that part isn't necessarily the most important part to be in focus. Conventional wisdom tells us that the eye should always be in focus - which may not fall under a focus point.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something!

Cheers,

- Pete

Just been out shooting snowdrops and I now know why I use MF and will continue to do so - focus didn't coincide with FPs! Did try AF (focus, recompose and shoot) and the resulting detail was the same as MF, so no probs with my AF with Sigma lenses (this was with Sigma 105mm and previously 150-500mm). But I did get another couple of Err 40s, so it's not batteries - down to camera or grip (but I suspect the former as that's what others' report)

Pete - in most cases the eye (and everything else) is in the same plane of focus as the rest of the butterfly unless I'm not shooting parallel to it (which isn't that often) so it doesn't really matter what part of it you focus on. if you focus on the tip of the abdomen and it's in the same plane the eye will be sharp same goes for middle of the wing etc. You'll either get it all sharp or if you're a fraction out on being parallel, and the dof is very small, something will be OOF, which might have be the eye, but then if you'd focused specifically for the eye a wing tip would most likely have been OOF which ok isn't so bad but still not perfect. In both cases you should just adjust your position to get it all sharp.

Markolous - do you have the latest firmware loaded for the camera? If not, maybe an upgrade of that would solve your problem?

FISHiEE wrote:Markolous - do you have the latest firmware loaded for the camera? If not, maybe an upgrade of that would solve your problem?

No, no! It's that I choose to focus somewhere where there isn't an FP not that the camera isn't capable (though it is slow as most of my current shots are in very poor light - but it'll produce useable ISO3200 so I'm happy!). I rarely use a centred comp and most of my butterfly shots are not on a plane - my 'for the record' and classic pose shots might be but my more interesting ones most certainly aren't!

Found the answer to my flat and boring 7D shots of snowdrops from yesterday: shoot some more with my SD14! Much better!