www.ukbutterflies.co.uk

Hi all,

With the new gallery mechanism we have an opportunity to use a different voting mechanism for monthly competitions than we've been using and I'd like your thoughts. I've spoken with Gary (Gruditch) about the options and we've decided that for this month (September) we're going to stick with the current mechanism for voting until we decide that any change would be beneficial.

A good reason for changing is that the new gallery mechanism has a built-in "contest" mechanism that allows an album to be configured with a start date/time, a voting date/time and an end date/time. The ability to vote, see the winners etc. is all automatic.

Now for the tricky bit - best described with an example. Imagine we have 50 entries. The "default" voting mechanism uses the rating associated with each photo to determine who wins. The problem with this mechanism is that photo A that has a single "10" rating has an average rating of 10 (duh!), whereas photo B that has 30 "9" ratings has an average rating of 9. Photo A is therefore the winner based on average rating.

Does this seem fair to you? It just doesn't seem right to me - since results can get skewed very easily.

One option is to change the mechanism for scoring, where the rating actually represents a number of votes. In the example, photo A would get a total of 10 votes and photo B would get a total of 270 votes (30 x 9). This assumes that any photo that a member has not rated is assumed to have zero votes - but members could vote on as many (or few) photos as they like.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Cheers,

- Pete

I was watching with interest the Test Competitions.

I think that your idea of changing the option to vote for as many (or few) that each person wishes, and votes being cast correspond to the highest rated, and not average score, sounds good.
For example, this month there is one outstanding entry to me, and I would give it 10, but there are also half a dozen others that deserve votes, and on our present system, I could only vote for another two, and all three would get one each.
One problem that I can see is, will there be a cut off point for each person after they have voted once, (like it is at the moment. Whether you vote for one or three, once you have cast your votes that's it) I know that the majority of members here are scrupulously honest and fair, but there will always be the temptation to vote for any given entry, more than once, so this I think should be worked into the system somehow.
I also like the way the entries are anonymous until voting is over, and the scores are hidden until the end, whether your logged on or not. This makes the competition very fair and much more interesting, as no one knows who they are voting for until the end.
Anyone else?

Denise

Denise wrote:One problem that I can see is, will there be a cut off point for each person after they have voted once

Yes - you can only rate an image once and, once rated, you can't change it!

And thanks for highlighting some of the advantages Denise! If we get concensus, perhaps we could try this for October and see how it goes.

Cheers,

- Pete

As a rule, I don't like change, but this system gets my vote.
I think this by far, is a much better way of voting, and more interesting

Denise

It would be useful to be able to see the pictures at the same time as allocating votes...perhaps there could be a tickbox below each picture

charles

That's exactly what you do using the new mechanism. Although it's a rating from 1 to 10, not a checkbox.

Cheers,

- Pete

Hi,

I don't think average scoring mechanism is the way to go. As you have clearly pointed out averages can be very misleading. Another idea would be to award multiple points for example (assuming the software can be tailored to support it).

If you were allotted 5 votes in total, your first choice would score 5 points the second choice 4 points, third choice 3 points and so on.

Just a thought

Pete Eeles wrote: One option is to change the mechanism for scoring, where the rating actually represents a number of votes. In the example, photo A would get a total of 10 votes and photo B would get a total of 270 votes (30 x 9). This assumes that any photo that a member has not rated is assumed to have zero votes - but members could vote on as many (or few) photos as they like.

Would be fun to try I think.

Hi Jerry,

I think what Pete is saying is that you can vote for as many or as few as you like, giving the best pic(s) 10, and the others what you want to. Anything from 0 - 10.
This is how I understand it to be anyway.

It will be fun to try.

Denise

That's exactly right. Not only would this allow you to distinguish between the best shots (which aren't always a 10), as well as allow most photos to get at least "some" points, rather than the zero that some inevitably get now.

Cheers,

- Pete

With this system, would we be able to see how the voting is going, or would it be hidden on till voting has finished.

Gruditch

It would be completely hidden. Essentially, you set up 3 dates when the album is created:

1. The start date of the competition. Nobody can upload images until that date.

2. The date at which ratings can be given. Nobody can upload images after this date, but they can provide a single rating per image. All ratings are "invisible" apart from your own.

3. The date when the competition ends. No more ratings can be given, the winners are automatically determined, and members are then able to comment.

If we want to set up a test competition just let me know. We could run it over, say, 3 days with a candidate set of images.

Cheers,

- Pete

I think that would be a good idea Pete, so that everyone can get a feel for this style of voting.
I only get it, as I was watching the test comps.
(The weather is miserable and I have a bad foot, so I can't go out )
Perhaps you should hang on a bit until everyone is aware of the suggested change tho.

Denise

After speaking with Gary - we've decided to start using the in-built mechanism this month, since it's quiet!

So - the September 2009 album is now a "contest" album. Key dates/times are:

2009-09-01 00:00 Competition open for entries
2009-10-05 00:00 Competition closed for entries. Competition open for ratings. Ratings hidden.
2009-10-20 00:00 Competition closed. Winners announced. Ratings visible. Open for comments.

Any issues - please let me know.

Cheers,

- Pete

Pete Eeles wrote:That's exactly what you do using the new mechanism. Although it's a rating from 1 to 10, not a checkbox.

Cheers,

- Pete

thanks Pete... it sounds exciting !!

charles

Speaking as a person who doesn't know how to vote, or who's won anything in Aug. I might kill myself slowly with a knitting needle.

Zonda wrote:Speaking as a person who doesn't know how to vote, or who's won anything in Aug. I might kill myself slowly with a knitting needle.

Voting for the August entries hasn't started yet (it starts on 5th September) and voting finishes on 20th September. So I'd save your knitting needles until then

The "dates" for the monthly competition are always as follows:

1. Entries can be submitted up until 5th of the following month. This allows photos taken right at the end of the month to be included.

2. Voting then starts (on the 5th).

3. Voting closes on 20th and the winners are announced.

Cheers,

- Pete

Zonda wrote:I might kill myself slowly with a knitting needle.

Try using a spoon

Gruditch

A spoon is way too slow, gosh what a death. Thanks for the help you two.

I wonder if we are all religiously going to rate each of the potential 40-50 images from 1-10? And not change our minds
Perhaps if everyone started with 1 as the default....
(... at least I may end up with some votes..... )
...and encourage us to start....
N

You and I are on the same page tonight Nick!
I was thinking along those same lines myself.

Denise