A good Clouded yellow year?

[nick patel]

Is it possible to know when it is going to be a good Clouded yellow year, and is this year gonna be?

ta.

[Padfield]

I can report from Switzerland that this is a bad clouded yellow year so far. None survived the winter and I've seen just handful in the valley this spring. None yet in the mountains. Berger's is numerous, as ever, but that is not such a strong migrant - more sedentary.

The summer brood might be better, though.

Guy

[nick patel]

Thanks a lot mate.

[Kingsdowner]

Any more views on whether it will be a good year?
Past good years have included 1947, 1955, 1983, 1992, 1994, 1996 and 2000. Ignoring an inconvenient years of 1994 and 1996, the intervals since 1947 were 8, 8, 9 and 8 years, so 2009 should be another good one.

Info about a previous year here:- http://kingsdownkent.blogspot.com/2009/ ... -1877.html

[geniculata]

i wonder if clouded yellow have the ability of math ?

gary.

[Padfield]

We had a wave of immigrant clouded yellows and pale clouded yellows about two weeks ago now. As I mentioned above, the hard winter meant the spring was lousy for the species, but at the moment they are about whenever it is warm enough. So I would say there is hope for some migrants reaching the UK.

Guy

[wavelea1]

Saw my first of 2009 yesterday in Wiltshire - I think we can safely say that it is not going to be a good year.

It doesn't appear to be a good year for Red Admirals either - I have now seen 5 in 2009 - only 5 - and I wondered whether the harsh winter did for most of these as well. What's it like in Switzerland Guy?

Mike

[Padfield]

Similar story with red admirals. None overwintered here (successfully, that is), the first wave of immigrants was very weak (probably those few that had survived in warmer parts of southern Europe) and although the species has been regular during the high summer its numbers are generally low. There's certainly no massive surplus to share with others!

Guy

[Dave McCormick]

Saw my first of 2009 yesterday in Wiltshire - I think we can safely say that it is not going to be a good year.

It doesn't appear to be a good year for Red Admirals either - I have now seen 5 in 2009 - only 5 - and I wondered whether the harsh winter did for most of these as well. What's it like in Switzerland Guy?

Mike

Really? There are larger numbers of red admirals here than I have seen in previous years, yesterday I counted over 50 in a small area, but then again, Red Admirals have been able to overwinter in Mountstewart now as they have been seen in winter months in the past two years here, that may have helped them. I can't see clouded yellow being a good year for them I think. Was 2006 any good for them does anyone know? I saw my first ever here then, there was not many., but it was a nice sight to see.

[Nigel]

I saw a Clouded Yellow (and a few Red Admirals) at Coombe Hill NR in Gloucestershire on Sunday 2nd. Having not seen a Clouded Yellow before, I was very pleased to see it and get a record shot.
There are also reasonable numbers of Red Admiral in Leicestershire at the moment.
Perhaps the next few weeks will give more of both..... hopefully.

Regards Nigel
www.nigelspencer.co.uk

[Mark Senior]

As has been posted on here by myself and Sussex Kipper , a breeding colony of Clouded Yellows has established itself at the Ouse Estuary Nature Reserve here in Sussex this year . Sussex Kipper has witnessed both a newly emerged female and newly laid eggs . It would appear that an immigrant laid eggs earlier in the year resulting in 20 or so offspring . A further hatching is hoped for in perhaps October but no doubt that progeny will not survive the winter .

[Piers]

A further hatching is hoped for in perhaps October but no doubt that progeny will not survive the winter .

Hi Mark, would it not depend upon the savagery of the coming Winter? Dorset famously has a couple of colonies, one of which has been extant for at least eight years. having said that (now that I no longer live in Bournemouth) I am not aware of whether the colony just down the coast made it through the harsh weather in Jan/Feb of this year.

Felix.

[Nigel]

Allthough I was very pleased to see these last Sunday, any info on colonies in Dorset would be welcome as I am spending the weekend with my camera in Dorset.

Cheers

Nigel
www.nigelspencer.co.uk

[Neil Hulme]

Hi Felix,
Yes, survival of Clouded Yellows through the winter at the Ouse Estuary Reserve is a distinct possibility - IF we go back to mild winters they stand a chance here. This will be an interesting one to watch.
Neil

[Piers]

Allthough I was very pleased to see these last Sunday, any info on colonies in Dorset would be welcome as I am spending the weekend with my camera in Dorset.

Cheers

Nigel
http://www.nigelspencer.co.uk

Hi Nigel,

Southbourne undercliff http://www.dorsetbutterflies.com/southbourne.htm is certainly worth a try; this colony was first confirmed to be successfully overwintering in 1998/1999.

It is also worth checking out Ballard Down http://www.dorsetbutterflies.com/ballard.htm. Clouded Yellow have almost certainly over wintered with success here; especially at the bottom of the south facing slopes adjacent to the foot path from the Ulwell lay by (see link). You should also see the very first Adonis here, weather permitting of course.

Best of luck...

Felix.

[Mikhail]

My advice is to give the Southbourne undercliff a miss this year. All you're likely to see are the odd white and perhaps a Painted Lady. Ballard Down is worth a visit and so is Portland, but sightings of Clouded Yellows have been very thin on the ground in Dorset so far this year.

Misha

[Piers]

Hi Misha,

Do you consider that the Southbourne colony failed to make it successfully through the spell of hard weather in the early part of this year? It was to be predicted but still a shame. I assume that the colony was annually fortified with immigrant butterflies as well as those that bred through from the previous year.

I wonder if it was the (low) temperature that finished the early instars off, or the incidence of consistent low temperatures over a prolonged period of time; i.e. sudden death as a result of temperatures falling below a 'critical minimum' or a demise due to a prolonged spell of low temperatures.

Felix.

[Mikhail]

Hi Felix

I don't think one can speak of a colony in the usual sense of a succession of generations from year to year. The Bournemouth cliffs have always needed reinforcements in the way of immigrants, not because spring numbers are too small to be viable, but mainly because of the behaviour of the females, which mostly emigrate from the cliffs immediately after mating. It is therefore exceptional for there to be a second generation produced locally. The difference in the behaviour of the two sexes was particularly apparent in 2002. That April I saw no fewer than 10 mating pairs at the Fisherman's Walk zigzag: on two occasions I witnessed males locate just emerged females with still limp wings. All of these females disappeared without apparently laying eggs locally, however several males continued to patrol the small area where they had emerged for the next three weeks. I suppose this makes sense to have sedentary males, so that females can be mated as soon as they emerge. That is not to say that males do not migrate, but I do think the urge is more strongly developed in females, and have often noticed that when immigrants arrive they are predominantly females, at least to begin with. For successful overwintering the first necessity is plentiful eggs laid in the autumn. It is usually the descendants of summer immigrants who oblige. Egg laying can continue until mid November, and I have known emergence to occur as late as the last week of November, but these late butterflies spend most of their time basking if there is any sun, and only fly weakly and briefly if at all. 2008 was the worst year so far with only 5 seen in April including a mating pair. There was practically no immigration, and all I saw in the autumn was a male and a female together in late September. I did find a first instar larva in December, and that is the last I have seen of the Clouded Yellow in Bournemouth. This year is even worse than 2008 so far. It would have been interesting to see how larvae would have coped with the colder winter. A German lepidopterist told me that he had observed Clouded Yellow larvae overwintering in south-west Germany which survived temperatures as low as -15C. I believe the main cause of mortality in the winter, as in the summer, is predation rather than frost. I have often noticed larvae just disappearing during mild fine spells of weather, when there is increased activity by other arthropods including spiders. You simply do not find caterpillars that have died of disease or cold, though I suppose it's possible they may be quickly scavenged.

Misha

[Padfield]

Misha, Felix or anyone else who knows, is it generally true of species that have a dispersal phase (Camberwell beauty, for instance) that it is primarily premated females that disperse? I've often speculated that this makes the most sense but lack data to back it up. Males and unmated females that head off into the unknown have to find other members of their species to avoid being genetic dead-ends. Mated females can keep the line going even if they don't find anyone to love.

Guy

[Mikhail]

I cannot say for certain that unmated female Clouded Yellows never migrate. In the case of the Camberwell Beauty, they must surely migrate unmated, since they mate after hibernation. I think these two species probably migrate for different reasons; the Clouded Yellow to seek breeding grounds where the host plants do not die back in the mediterranean summer, and the Camberwell Beauty irruptions are probably a response to high population densities in north-east Europe. Does this make sense?

Misha