www.ukbutterflies.co.uk

Hi all

I’m looking for an entry level DSLR and thought I had nailed what model to buy but went to the local camera shop yesterday and came away with different ideas on it which I thought I’d run by folks here.

I will use the camera for 4 main subject areas
1. Butterflies
2. Motorbikes (both static and moving)
3. Scenery

After reading up on dpreview I had settled on a Canon EOS 450D and was going to buy the Canon 17-55 f2.8 IS USM lens as a good general purpose lens, with a view to expanding lenses to suit after getting to grips with the camera. However, the shop showed me the Sony alpha range in particular the 350. Now the reviews on dpreview aren’t particularly glowing about this camera (but it has won awards I believe). The main areas it falls down in (comparatively of course) are image quality at higher ISOs and speed of review screen updating after taking a shot. But, it seems to have some rather nice features which, on reflection, could make it attractive despite these relative drawbacks.

I wasn’t particularly wanting a camera with live view as, so I’ve read, on a DSLR it’s a bit of a gimmick and probably only useful in a studio. However the Sony live view system is such that it can be used quickly and easily by virtue of (I think) having 2 sensors so it doesn’t have to move the mirror to generate the live view.

In conjunction with the live view is the fact that the screen can fold out, and be viewed from below and above, effectively allowing photos to be shot from the waist. I can see a useable live view screen in conjunction with the folding screen being quite useful for shooting uncooperative subjects like butterflies. Thoughts?

The other feature I liked is that the image stabilisation is onboard the camera body, meaning that if you want image stabilisation, you don’t need to buy lenses with it integrated into the lens. That seems to make a lot of sense both practically and financially, as non-IS lenses are cheaper so I could buy better quality or faster lenses for the same money as the IS equivalent. That might mitigate some of the high ISO performance issues because I could buy faster lenses. What I don’t have a good feel for is whether a camera based IS system has the same performance as a lens based IS system. If anyone can comment on this I’d be most grateful. One specific question relating to noise - if you do want to use higher ISO settings does turning down the pixel resolution on the camera reduce the noise?

Lastly, not so much of a feature but it is important, and that is price, which would allow more types of lenses to be bought for the same as the 450D + GP lens I mention above. I still intend to go body only and get a quality lens in the first instance.

As ever thanks for any comments, either to the specific points I mention or on the general trauma which is buying stuff!

Cheers all

Bill

Hi Bill. Check back through the threads as this one has been pretty well covered. The others know my bias towards Sony which is equally matched by enthusiasm by others in particular towards Canon.

Trying to be as objective as possible, the A350 has going for it:
Articulating rear screen with the best integrated live-view of any camera brand.
Very high resolution sensor at lower iso
Sensor based image stabilisation meaning every lens attached is stabilised.

Against:
In bright sunlight, the screen isn't very bright, so you'd need some sort of shade attachment.
The live-view uses a separate sensor in the pentamirror housing which reduces the viewfinder image size and brightness.
And I have to concede, at high iso the noise is pants with this model.

Shooting butterflies is usually going to be in good light so you won't need high iso for that, or for landscapes, and the in-body image stabilisation will help you substantially here, particularly as a new buyer you will probably go for non stabilised independently manufactured lenses by Sigma or Tamron. But fast moving bikes will need decent shutter speeds, and possibly higher iso settings in order to reach them.

It's up to you whether the first two subjects are more important to you that the last one. I would recommend the Sony A700 as the best of both worlds but it's quite a bit above entry level both in performance and in price. The Sony A200 is also worth a look. It has pretty much all the techie things you might need plus a simple easy-to-use menu system for beginners.

The fact that you actually got your hands on a camera is very important, and you should try your chosen model before you buy.

Have you thought about one of the new 18-200mm superzoom lenses as this would cover most of your initial requirements as you get used to the system. You may need an extension tube for close focusing on butterflies to start with but I'm betting that before long you'll buy a dedicated 90/100 or 150mm macro lens if butterflies are your first choice. Lense prices are really being hit these last months by the exchange rate with most rising 20-30% so getting a good deal with the kit lens is important.

Hi Bill, It can be a bit confusing going into a camera shop, you have it all set out in your mind what you want. Then the sales assistant hits you with way too much info to take in all at once, and you end up leaving with nothing.

Salisbury has three camera shops, Jessops hmmm, the very good Castle Camera's, and my favourite London Camera Exchange. I favour LCE because they offer the best part ex on used gear, plus I get discount.

The Canon 1000D is in-fact the Canon entry model, the 450D is the next step up the ladder, above that is the 40D which will cost you about another £150.

Firstly IMO live view is there to make those moving from compacts feel comfortable, "oh I can still use a screen", forget it you wont, so disregard that as a selling point.

The 450D will meet all your needs, and if you choose to go down the Canon line, then a massive array of lenses will be available to you. You can't use them all at once, but it's very nice to have the choice. Also because Canon and Nikon are so popular, third party lens manufacturers make every lens in a Canon or Nikon mount.

You said that you were not going for a lens kit, but wished to chose your own general purpose lens, Very wise.

Often the kit lenses, are not up to much at entry level, the lens you mentioned is a fantastic lens, a bit heavy and very expensive, but fantastic. I would also consider the Sigma 18-50mm F/2.8 EX DC, no IS, but you don't really need IS on a fast wide angle lens, I also have a couple of Canon alternatives for you to try.

For Butterflies, it has to be the Sigma 150mm F/2.8 Macro, (not listed in a Sony mount)

You will need a Monopod with this lens, there are plenty that will brake down small enough to pop in a backpack.

For the motorbike stuff, you will be spoilt for choice, but the lens that seems to fit the bill the best, would be the Canon 70-200mm F/4 L IS USM, this lens at 760g is very light, has built in IS that no in camera body IS could match, I will have one for you to test in a few weeks, so you can judge for yourself.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Revi ... eview.aspx look here for a review.



Regards Gruditch

For what its worth, do really consider what you are REALLY going to use your camera for BEFORE you spend money getting the camera AND range of lenses you THINK you might need, unless like most blokes, you just like having your techie toys for the boys

I rarely take-off my Tamron 90mm macro during the season; if I do, I replace it with a wide-angle18-55mm Nikkor kit lens I picked-up for £70 for landscapes. I have a couple of other cheap lenses - not great ones - Sigma 28-300mm Macro and Tamron 55-200mm Macro - but they rarely get an outing....

I think that Hi-ISO performance is a good point; many birders, I notice, with super-zooms or zooms, shoot at ISO 400 - often because the lenses they use are f3.5-4 at the low-end and f5.6 or more at the long-end and you just can't get the light to shoot at anything less. And when you look at f2.8, that's when the price starts to soar!

I personally, would get the macro lens first and wait until I have got used to the camera and like others have also said, see if you can try-before-you-buy any other lens.
Can't speak for Canon (Nikon myself -Nikkor V. Expensive lenses!) Anything from the Tamron 90mm macro, to the Sigma 150mm macro (bugma) or even Tamron180mm macro for greater reach should do the job for butterflies - they aren't bad telephotos either! (Tamron 90mm v good portrait lens for example)

(And in agreement with others - £/$ exchange rate means once current stocks are gone, we may not get such good deals as now...you can't win, can you?!)

Prices are already moving upwards. RGB-Tech is one of the lower priced retailers for Sony. I bought a lens from them last month for £400, and it's now an extra £62.

Canon 70-200mm F/4 L IS USM, this lens at 760g is very light, has built in IS that no in camera body IS could match

Perhaps we will be able to test your claim in April against my A700 + 70-210 F4 beercan. I think you'll be surprised.

But of relevance to the OP, the quoted Canon lens is £760 new, probably out of reach pricewise and is therefore a rather pointless example. By comparison, you can get a mint s/h beercan (70-210 F4) for about £130 and of course it's stabilised on a Sony body.

The above example is where it really gets difficult because the prices of lenses come into the equation, whether you buy OEM or independents, and whether you only buy new or would consider s/h. With Sony ALL your lenses will be stabilised whatever you buy.