www.ukbutterflies.co.uk

6th December. Bournemouth
This year I have seen only seven Clouded Yellows on the Bournemouth cliffs, the latest on 26th Sept., so I was surprised and delighted to find a first instar caterpillar on Common Bird's-foot Trefoil at the Manor Steps zig-zag, Boscombe today. I would think that the egg must have been laid in late October or early November. Surprisingly, no Red Admirals seen, but one very late Common Darter and a female Common Field grasshopper.

Blimey... not being a clouded yellow expert, that sounds quite unusual to me... would it survive our winter does anyone think?

Clouded Yellow caterpillars have survived the winter in most recent years on the Bournemouth cliffs, and there is strong circumstantial evidence that they have elsewhere on the south coast. In late February this year I found five fully grown caterpillars on the cliffs, and on 2nd March a pupa. The first sighting of an adult was on 3rd April. In past years I have seen Clouded Yellows in April still drying their wings, and once found a crippled specimen in April that could not have flown.

so are they now therefore officially a british species and not a migrant? I didn't realise they were able to survive our winters. I guess the south coast sea cliffs (I am presuming they are coastal being in bournemouth!) are a little warmer on average than inland...

FISHiEE wrote:so are they now therefore officially a british species and not a migrant? I didn't realise they were able to survive our winters. I guess the south coast sea cliffs (I am presuming they are coastal being in bournemouth!) are a little warmer on average than inland...

They're in the same classification as Red Admiral - regular migrants but also regularly observed as overwintering and, therefore, on their way to becoming a permanent resident.

Cheers,

- Pete

yes I know red admirals do a bit of both. Never realised Clouded Yellows did the same.

I've only ever seen 2 here in the UK so guess I've not had much dealing with them and thus not read much on them in books

I think two years ago I saw caterpillars of clouded yellow around, but I don't think they survived as I have not seen any clouded yellow since then, but back then I just seen them for first time and was not really sure what they were, but I think it might be nice seeing clouded yellow around more.

Contributors to this thread will be interested to know that on the 6th December a first instar Clouded Yellow larvae was identified on the Bournemouth undercliff.

It will be interesting to see whether they are able to survive the recent hard weather.

Felix.

Hi Felix & Mikhail

Just wondering if Hengistbury Head is any good for Clouded Yellows, whether in the summer or as larvae in winter.

Charles

One or two hard, long winters can wipe out resident clouded yellow populations. In some years they put in a very poor showing all over Europe. 2005 was the most recent such year, at least in France and Switzerland. I didn't see my first that year until June 23rd - doubtless an imigrant, and numbers were very poor for the rest of the year (but there were plenty further south, in Spain). Painted ladies had an awful year too. But the very warm winter of 2006-7 allowed them to flourish (they were flying in Dec. 2006 and Jan. 2007 in Switzerland) - I believe that winter was very mild in England also, and many small local populations survived the winter.

So I suspect it is still incorrect to regard the species as a permanent resident in the UK - more a migrant with the capacity to set up home and hang on a few years if the winters are mild enough. I'm quite happy to be contradicted, as I myself am now only a migrant to the UK.

Guy

Certainly in August 2006 on the Dorset Coast near Swanage, there were more than I have ever seen before (1 in E. Anglia).
In the end, I stopped chasing them (to my son's delight!) - must have seen dozens on the coast path by the end of the week!
So it is probable that these were the proginy of an earlier immigrant (or even an overwintering population...?)

It doesn't surprise me then to find that they are able to overwinter in some localitites....here's to a good year for all species!
N

i thought i saw a clouded yellow fly past our flat in sept a yellow one with orange flew past at quite a speed, think it mustve been a brimstone u think?

Guy - there were reports of a colony on the south coast of Cornwall a couple of years ago, which would have escaped the recent freeze. Not sure if it is still there though!

thepostieles wrote:i thought i saw a clouded yellow fly past our flat in sept a yellow one with orange flew past at quite a speed, think it mustve been a brimstone u think?

When I saw a CY for the first time and didn't know what it was I asked my brother; he described it something like " strong flying, like a determined Large White, but Orange/Yellow instead"
A characteristic seems to be "not hanging around".....

It could easily have been a Clouded Yellow....

N

Nick, I was like you when I first saw a Clouded Yellow, I thought it to be a fast flying large white, but then I noticed its spot on underwing and its yellow colour. It does look like a pale yellowish large white when flying, but as you get closer, you can see difference.

Hi Charles
Hengistbury Head can be good for Clouded Yellows in a good year, but I don't recommend looking for larvae there. There is simply too much foodplant! The best area for them is the eastern end of the cliffs, say east of Gordon Steps zig-zag, especially near the Bistro on the Beach and on to the Point House. Portman Ravine at Boscombe used to be a great place for finding larvae winter and summer, but is being overrun with Hottentot Fig. Fisherman's Walk zig-zag is good when there is good germination of Hairy Bird's-foot Trefoil, on which the larvae have successfully overwintered occasionally. By the way, Hengistbury is not an overwintering site. In the autumn the butterflies seek out foodplant growing in the warmest micro-climate in sheltered spots low on the cliffs. One bitterly cold but sunny January day I recorded a temperature of 18 degrees in a clump of Spotted Medick, with larvae feeding, at the foot of the cliffs. Saw my first butterfly of the year today- a Red Admiral needless to say.
Misha

Thanks for that Misha....

I went to boarding school in Southbourne; every Wednesday afternoon we had cross-country to Hengistbury Head & back

Last summer i explored Stanpit Marsh looking for butterflies. There was a colony of Small Coppers in the gorse bushes there.

I intended to look for butterflies at the Head but unfortunately the car park had been taken over by the Travelling Community.

Best wishes

Charles