www.ukbutterflies.co.uk

I am thinking about if this camera is reasonably priced in the January sales I just might take the plunge. Any advice, although Eccles has been very helpful in technical advice.
Shirley

There is a Sony £30 cashback on this camera currently, but it lapses on 31st December so you have a possible dilemma. Do you buy now and get the cashback or wait and see if the sales save you more, and Sony may extend the cashback period anyway. The A200 is a good starter camera, but the normal 18-70 kit lens isn't going to get you very close. However, instead of going for a two lens kit you could buy a body only and pair it with a Tamron 18-250 which will give you a bit of reach. The Tamron has had some good writeups too.

Having said that, there is only so far another person's opinion can take you, and you really should get down to your local camera shop and play with some of the popular entry level cameras. This is important because once you start forking out on expensive lenses then you're not going to want to change because the camera or the controls don't feel right.

Mike.

There's quite a few offers on the camera but with the Tamron lens you have mentioned is it a Macro lens, or one I can take birds. Funnily enough I have an old magazine Feb 08 and it features the Tamron range of lenses, it mentions the17-300mm @£120, the 55-200mm @ £125, those are Macro the Zoom ones are double the price and more but it doesn't mention the 18-250. With the lenes that comes as a bundle, do you know if those are zoom or macro?
Tomorrow I'll pop over to the camera shop to see whats what but I may next week go to Comet or PC world and then of course January sales, but its seems its not the camera its the lens that will cost a bit.
Shirley

The Tamron lens I mentioned is called a 'macro' but the true definition of 'macro' is a lens that will create a 1:1 image, that is an image that is as big on the sensor as the real object. A 1" long object would fill the frame on a 1" sensor. So called macro zooms just allow close focus and give say 1:4 or 1:2 if you're lucky. Nevertheless you can often still take nice photos of larger butterflies. The 18-250 will focus down to 450mm which should be close enough for something the size of a speckled wood. The lens is useful for general use because of its large range making it useful for landscapes as well as portraits and medium telephoto work, while still hanging onto quite respectable image quality. The 250mm end is good enough for garden birds as long as you can get close enough. Shooting through the curtains at your bird feeder should be ok. You will need good light for the tele end though as it's not a very large aperture. Web price should be around £280.

The 18-70 Sony kit lens is often thrown in cheaply with the various Sony bodies, so might be worth considering anyway. It's a bit soft at the edges between the 18-24 range but is surprisingly good when used when stopped down a bit. But if you settle for that, you'll soon need a telephoto. And that's a whole new subject that could set you back £100 or £1000.

There is no 17-300 Tamron. You probably mean the 70-300. It's not a brilliant lens and will be a bit soft at the long end. Most consumer medium telephotos will be similar. An exception is the Sony 70-300 'G' which is optically superb, but at over £400 it ain't cheap.

I have the Sony version of the 55-200 which is optically identical to the Tamron. It IS a budget lens with a plastic camera mount, but optically it's not half bad, and will focus close enough for larger butterflies.The Tamron version can be had very cheaply (£59 from Bristol Cameras). Having said that, I don't think 200mm is long enough for most birds.

I am interested in this discussion as I have been considering buying a Sony A350. Again my question would be what is the best Macro lens to buy to use with it for butterfly photography. I'm not particularly interested in photographing birds. I would be happy using the standard lens whivh comes with the camera for general photos. My aim is to spend around £600 on the camera and the lens. Suggestions gratefully received.

David

The best "long" Macros that you can get with a Sony mount, looks to be the Tamron SP AF180mm F/3.5 Di LD (IF) 1:1 Macro, and the Sigma 180mm f/3.5 EX DG Macro HSM, But both will probably use up the whole of your budget.

Gruditch

Why buying say a Canon, Nikon or Sony, do the lens from all these cameras fit each other, like the Tamron seems to fit everything and the Sigma. So I seem to be looking for the cheapest camera but the lens will cost that much more.
Shirley

Hi,

All the Cameras have specific mounts, so for example Canon lenses will only fit Canon camera's. The lens makers Sigma & Tamron make their lenses with mounts for Sony, Nikon etc, so when ordering Sigma or Tamron, be sure to order the correct mount type for the camera body.

I own the Sony 100mm f2.8 Macro lens and am very pleased with it. The 18-70mm Sony Kit lens has a minimum focus distance of 38cm and although not a macro lens can produce sharp images close up.

You may also find this site interesting as attempts to show the best price for camera equipment. It would be wise to do a google search on some of these shops and see what experiences others have had buying from them before ordering, as some of reviews of a couple of them are less than favorable.

http://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk

Have fun

Thanks for that advice. I came across a SIGMA 105mm f2.8 EX SON DG Macro priced at £288. I have been quoted £380 for a Sony A350. That would come in close to my £600 target. Is that a combination that would work well together?

David

@David, that combination would give you very sharp photos although you'd need to learn your craft well to get close to your subjects. At 1:1 the front of the lens is only about 4" from the subject. Of course, you don't always need 1:1, but it's a reason why many here prefer a longer focal length such as the Sigma 150mm.
I will ask you why you are considering the A350 though. The live-view function is very good. It is well integrated into the menu system and is perhaps the best implementation of it anywhere. If you are used to a compact camera, you may find it the best thing since sliced bread, and that tilting screen may help you get into awkward places to take your shot. Having said that, the viewfinder is compromised by the necessity of having the second sensor in the VF housing. The VF image is smaller and darker than in the A200. The 14MP sensor may seem attractive but in real world photos the 10MP of the A200 will not be significantly lacking.
So if you will be primarily using the viewfinder to compose your shots you may find the A200 to be a better purchase, and use the spare cash to buy a Sigma 150 macro instead of the 105.
Above all though, get your hands on both of them, and also look at other manufacturer's offerings.

Eccles, I'm not sure if the Sigma 150mm comes in a Sony fit.

Gruditch

Excuse me Gruditch while I have a word with Eccles. I have printed both the descriptions on both cameras A200 and A350 and a review said how good the A200 but it has no Live View. Another thing it said was a little bright for portraits- however, you can change settings in the camera to compensate for this, but be prepared to blind subjects- what on earth does that mean. The review ends by saying overall the camera is great valve and it is easy to use but also has a host of useful features as you get more used to it.
That review came from Amazon.
Shirley

@Gruditch, I've had a quick scout around the web, and you're right that the Sigma 150 is a bit thin on the ground in Sony A mount, but they do make one. Walters Photos lists them but they're out of stock, and they're not cheap.
@Shirley, I don't know what Amazon means by 'a bit bright for portraits'. Perhaps they mean the flash is a bit bright, but it's automatic with feedback from all recent lenses and quite accurate. The Sony/Minolta ADI system is quite sophisticated, and with older lenses the TTL system works well too. In any case, you can set flash override for under or over compensation. Sufficient to say it is probably all the camera you're likely to need as an entry level model, but has a few extra bells and whistles to keep you busy learning your art, such as spot metering, and continuous shooting.
As for live view, I can't answer that for you. I found it useful sometimes on the Canon S3 compact that I had previously, but never really missed it when I switched to a DSLR. For the occasional shots I take near the ground, I picked up an old Minolta right angle finder which is a bit like a periscope in reverse. It must be thirty years old but it fits the Sony perfectly.

It's dawned on me what the "be prepared to blind subjects" means. There are two ways of setting on board flash on the Sony models, ADI or TTL. ADI takes info from the focussing system of the attached lens to determine the subject distance and calculates the flash output necessary. TTL ignores that and fires a pre-flash to determine the correct output, then fires the flash again to take the picture. Maybe this is what they meant. TTL flash is only required with older legacy lenses which only have five contacts on the rear of the lens. Those with eight contacts use the superior ADI system with just a single flash.
There is another possibility. If the ambient light is insufficient to allow autofocus to work, you can raise the flash which then fires off pulses of light to aid autofocus. But this would more likely to be a problem when taking social snaps at parties etc. as you'd hardly be taking portraits in the dark.

Eccles.Thanks for the advice on the Sony camera and lenes but I don't think that I am ready for a DSLR yet, I've decided to get a tele converter lens for my Panasonic and learn more about cameras and the lenes, I going to have lessons in photoshop in the New Year but I've printed out all your advice and it won't go to waste. I've been following the thread on hand held photos and there is so much to learn, so I'll wait for a bit. Thanks anyway.
Shirley

No problem, Shirley. It's a lot to learn and a lot to spend as well, so going the DSLR route isn't necessarily the way for everyone. A teleconverter for your bridge camera can provide a useful gain in reach for small birds, but to get close to butterflies I would recommend adding an achromatic close up lens. Using one of these can give superior results to most cameras' macro modes. They provide the biggest magnification at the telephoto end of the zoom, allowing a decent shooting distance. There may be one available as part of the Panasonic accessory list, or you may be able to pick up a Sigma lens on ebay. I've seen them recently selling for about £10. You would need to check the filter size before buying.

Eccles I have a close up lens. Last summer I ordered it of Amazon and waited 3 months in the end they said they couldn't get one, so I ordered another from someone I forgotton and it came at the end of September and it was certainly different. This afternoon a Small Tortoiseshell appeared in the house so I tried to photo it stuck to my finger and there is no way I could get a close up photo like yours in the comp, even when it was half asleep on the floor I still couldn't get a close up. When it had had enough of the photo shoot I put it in the wash house.
I told my nephew I'd changed my mind so he's coming over on Sunday to have a word and bring his Nikon 40x. Last time he came he borrowed my tripod and I have seen it since, a sort of a long borrow . I'll see what the January sales offer.
Shirley Ps. I've just read your comment again and are you saying I can put another lens onto the converter?

No, you won't be able to do that. You either put the close up lens on or the teleconverter. Where people go wrong with close up lenses is they don't realise that they can no longer focus at distance. Either that, or they get one that is far too powerful. Raynox make close up lenses for instance that come in up to 10 dioptre. But put one of those on a camera and you're three inches away from the subject and the depth of focus is tiny making it almost impossible to hand hold.
For butterflies you should use a 2 dioptre lens like the Canon 500D, or one of the Sigma achromats that pop up on ebay from time to time and you'll be fine. Bring the camera to about 12-18" from the subject and it'll autofocus ok. Then use the zoom to fit the image in the viewfinder.

Mike,

Thanks for the advice. I currently use a bridge camara so I am quite like the idea of live view. Having looked at a number of options I think I have decided to buy a Sony A300 from Jessops at £430 including the standard lens + a Tamron 70 - 300 mm lens and a memory card. I'm then going to save up and buy a Sigma 150 mm Macro lens (assuming I can find one with a Sony fitting). Failing that and I would have to save a bit longer I have seen a Sigma 180 mm macro lens which does fit a Sony.

David

Good luck with your purchase, David.
I think the Tamron zoom is a good starting point for someone on a budget. It can do 1:2, or 1/2 lifesize, which is a sort of semi-macro and will be plenty big enough for most butterflies. Resolution won't be as good as a dedicated macro lens but it'll certainly get you going, and you've got something for the garden birds as well.

If you buy online for local pickup or home delivery you may be able to save an additional £20 by using the Jessop's coupon:
XMAS10 £10 if spend £150-£299
XMAS20 £20 if spend £300-£599
XMAS30 £30 if spend £600-£799
XMAS40 £40 if spend £800-£999
XMAS50 £50 if spend over £1000

I'm not sure if they're still valid but it's worth a try.
Cheers,
Mike.