www.ukbutterflies.co.uk

Today I went on “ebay” in the hope of finding a charity pin badge of a Camberwell Beauty for the “Bedra” Charity, that I had once seen, just to add to my newly started collection of butterfly memorabilia – Stamps, Tea Cards etc. I typed in a search for Camberwell beauty and was horrified when I found dead, pinned specimens up for sale by someone in Poland ( this is his user name to locate him on ebay - mosura7 ) these included moths as well as butterflies. At the time when I made my search the seller had acquired a total of 108 sale / feedbacks to his name, with 46 items ( dead lepidopter’a – forgive the spelling ) still up for sale.

Some how I don’t think it likely that he is breading and releasing butterflies and just keeping a few extra’s to sell in order to fund the project.

I am not knowledgeable enough about protected species myself to raise any sort of protest. But I bring this to the attention of a wider audience in the hope that it might be stopped. I find this morally offensive and personally quite upsetting. When so many people are doing so much to protect, understand and preserve all wild things, that this rape of nature is aloud to go on and for nothing more than a bit of easy money.
In my opinion anyone with any sense of morality in these supposedly enlightened times will find this as offensive as I do. Equally as disturbing is the fact that the sales seem to be targeted at an English speaking customer market, which would mean that it is our friends and neighbours who are promoting this trade.

I’m sure that amongst our number, someone will have the know-how and the capabilities to have this awful trade stopped. I pass this information on to all of you in the hope that it will play some part in the eradication of this trade.

Keith.

Hi Keith,

Unfortunately, I don't think there's anything we can do - other than not purchase the items that are up for sale. Collecting isn't, I believe, against the law in Poland. As it happens, it's not in Britain either, apart from the species listed in the Wildlife and Countryside Act. See:

http://www.ukbutterflies.co.uk/reports_law.php

Even then, for most of them, they can still be collected from the wild as long as they (or their offspring) are not "for sale".

All in all - our laws are pathetic

Cheers,

- Pete

There are far greater threats to British and European butterflies than this chap and those of his ilk.

Unless something can be done - pretty damn quickly - to preserve habitats on a landcape scale (especially in this ludicrousely overdrowded island) then there won't be any butterflies left anyway.

Felix.

Felix wrote:There are far greater threats to British and European butterflies than this chap and those of his ilk.

Unless something can be done - pretty damn quickly - to preserve habitats on a landcape scale (especially in this ludicrousely overdrowded island) then there won't be any butterflies left anyway.

Felix.

Well said. This is a view confirmed by BC and most conservation organisations.

Stop those "eco"-towns ... the ultimate in spin

Cheers,

- Pete

I entirely agree with Keith that this kind of trade is distasteful in the extreme - and personally I would agree with his categorisation of it as immoral. However, it is worth remembering that the British 'enlightenment' with regard to collecting &c. occurred without any legal prohibition (except, as Pete says, in the case of certain, threatened species and insects for sale). Collecting most species is perfectly legal and yet a very small number of butterfly enthusiasts now do it.

I say the British enlightenment because there remain highly active collectors in many other countries. I met and made friends with a Swiss conservationist last year who was recently into butterflies and we agreed to do some trips together this year. Then, just before the season began, he sent me some photos of set specimens he had taken last year, for me to identify - he had collected them without even knowing what they were. As it happened, they included at least one interesting and nationally scarce species (but locally common, I should add, so he probably took them in a field of plenty). Ironically, in my canton in Switzerland (Vaud), exceptionally, it is illegal to collect any butterfly (or to interfere with any wildlife apart from game), regardless of rarity.

This was in all other respects a thoroughly decent bloke and I think he was offended that I (a) refused to identify them and (b) retracted my offer to do some trips together. But it was out of the question that I should show him any sites at all, knowing he might come back later and take some specimens. I would feel like Judas. It's not the conservation aspect, which is probably negligible - I simply find taking life out of acquisitiveness or curiosity a tragic and shameful activity. In Spain and Portugal collecting is entirely normal and Tim Cowles tells me this is true in his part of France too.

I also agree with Pete and Felix, though, that collecting is not and never has been (except in a few, special cases, like the British large copper) a major conservation issue - it is merely distasteful. Habitat loss and damage is far and away the most significant factor. This is where our voices really need to be heard.

Guy

Keith Woonton wrote:
Some how I don’t think it likely that he is breading and releasing butterflies and just keeping a few extra’s to sell in order to fund the project.

Keith.

Why do you say that? There are some very resourceful breeders worldwide.

Although it is over twenty years ago now, I overwintered a few adult Nymphalis antiopa Camberwell Beauties kindly sent by a skillful mainland European Butterfly Enthusiast. Had a couple of pairings the following spring. I placed a small potted sallow in their cage and one sunny April morning, observed one of the females taking a number of minutes to lay 200+ ova around the twig of the Sallow. They made a pleasing sight being neatly and conservatively placed around the twig. I took several photographs using macro lens and hoped they would be fertile. I then noticed another large batch of ova closeby no doubt laid by the other female. Sometime later, the ova turned dark inside ~ the heads of the little larvae developing within each egg transformed their appearance. They started hatching and feeding. I then realised that I had more larvae than I could ever hope to successfully feed through to the adult stage.

I like to always use growing foodplant to promote healthy growth of my livestock but, no chance of feeding 400+ that way. In the wild, many larvae would be predated by various other creatures but in captivity, such losses would not occur.

I passed a few larvae to other breeder friends and the word got round I had these larvae available. Total strangers offered to buy a few dozen. What would you do? Tread on all those larvae you had no chance of feeding properly? I did not do that.

The Large Tortoiseshell ( Nymphalis polychloros ) has a simiar life history and one spring I had over a thousand larvae to dispose of! Breeding fifty to healthy adulthood requires much time, care and attention .... Imagine one thousand! Good husbandry means huge numbers of healthy insects can be bred at NO cost to Nature.

These things are all relative ~ and very subjective.

If anyone really cares about butterflies, they should devote their time and efforts to ensuring their habits are not destroyed. Above all, THAT is the biggest threat to these things we all love. It really is!
...

Cotswold Cockney,
You asked in response to,

Keith Woonton wrote:Some how I don’t think it likely that he is breading and releasing butterflies and just keeping a few extra’s to sell in order to fund the project.

saying,

Cotswold Cockney wrote:Why do you say that? There are some very resourceful breeders worldwide.

The reason why I doubt this particular seller is breading these insets is because of the shear number of different species, which is being offered for sale, only a few of which are of the same type. From my own experiences of breading insects, one is usually restricted by both the space required and the time needed to feed, clean and monitor their health. Although in retrospect I may owe the seller an apology for having tried and convicted him / her with out concrete proof of my suspicions.

From your own account of breading Camberwell Beauties and Large Tortoiseshell one very quickly has hundreds – thousands of offspring to deal with. I would be interested to hear from others, how many different species they are able to successfully maintain at any given time because I would be happier if my suspicions were proved wrong.

You asked,

Cotswold Cockney wrote:What would you do? Tread on all those larvae you had no chance of feeding properly?

No, My solution or strategy is a little different. I would only ever raise native species in order to bolster wild populations, thinning their numbers by releasing them back into the wild at various stages of their development in to their source locations or very carefully chosen new sites. Thereby ending up with just a few individuals to continue breading from and occasionally introducing fresh stock to keep the gene pool healthy. Although even this gives me cretin cause for concern as nature has a wonderful ability to maintain a fluctuating and pulsating equilibrium. That is to say, if this year there is an abundance of food in the way of caterpillars then birds, wasps etc will do well. Next year in response there will be more predators and the caterpillar numbers will fall. The year after predator numbers will fall and caterpillars will do well and so on. So by interfering with this natural rhythm is more harm being done than good? Obviously in the case of sum species which are under threat of becoming extinct, raising their numbers would be offset by all the others giving a little from their number in support. This I find a bit of a dilemma, what are your thoughts?

I totally agree with Felix, Pete, Guy and yourself about the bigger issue of habitat loss, and I have done what I can by donating time and effort in conservation projects over many years and I have had many blisters to prove it.

I’m afraid I do and probably always will find the trading of ivory, stuffed animals and pinned butterflies against my taste. And although there are certain circumstances where sum benefits can be gained for the species as a whole, the question for me remains, why would anyone want dead things on their walls anyway?
Keith.

Keith Woonton wrote: I’m afraid I do and probably always will find the trading of ivory, stuffed animals and pinned butterflies against my taste. And although there are certain circumstances where sum benefits can be gained for the species as a whole, the question for me remains, why would anyone want dead things on their walls anyway?
Keith.

Well that's just a question of personal taste Keith; I can not stand golf or Porsche Cayenne's - they upset my sensibilities and are both (in my opinion) of very questionable taste!! but if people want to play it/drive one it's their choice and I respect that.

I am very interested in old entomological collections and have rescued a few from disappearing into dust through lack of any curation. You may have been happy to see them disintegrate, but like I said - it's all down to personal choice.

Felix.