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Please could you help me with identifying these skippers from the South of France ?







merci beaucoup

Charles

As no one else has had a go Charles, I will try
Grizzled, Silver-spotted and Large Skipper.
I'm probably wrong but it will the get the thread going, and I would like to know what they are.

Cheers
Denise

Hi Charles,

Do you have any more ups pictures of the first skipper - even bad photos? Denise is absolutely right about the silver-spotted and large skippers but I'd like more data before I commit myself on the first!!

Guy

Thanks Guy. I'm starting to get better at this at last.

Cheers
Denise

Hi Guy & Denise

Thanks for the positive ids. Here is another pic... i think it is the same specimen as the first of the 3 previous:



Charles

Hi Charles,

That's not the same individual but I think it might well be the same species - so let's apply Ockham's razor and assume it is!

I think this is the southern French subspecies of grizzled skipper, Pyrgus malvae malvoides (in other words, Denise was right, again!). I have little experience of this subspecies myself but I did see it when I visited Tim Cowles in France this year and these two photos (of the same individual) I took then were confirmed by him as being classic malvoides.




Although the books say it looks the same as grizzled skipper, Tim finds that the white spots are less cluttered, the submarginal spots on the forewing more often absent and the central marking on the upper hindwing more often diminished (as it is in yours).

If your upperside and underside really are the same species I can see no reasonable alternative to malvoides!

Guy

Thanks for that Guy,

So - what reference do you use for the various European subspecies? I'd love to find a good subspecies reference that covers Europe!

Cheers,

- Pete

I'm afraid I glean from all the available references, Pete! Tolman is the best single book, though H & R is an invaluable complement. H & R actually bother to describe things! In addition I use Lafranchis (his original French book as well as his later European book - I haven't yet bought the French edition of the European book), my Swiss guide, Chinery (which I only have in French) and the French edition of H & R.

For some European species it is important to have a knowledge of the subspecies. This is particularly true of Mellicta species, as well as many blues (very important for Plebeius). But there is no substitute for experience - most of us are only ever going to be experts on our own patch, or the patches we visit regularly!

Guy

Thanks for all your help Guy, Pete & Denise.

Surely it is time for Padfield's Guide to European Skippers to be published

Charles