Page 1 of 1

Oh dear skippers again....

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:46 pm
by Eris
Sorry for this to be my first post here,( but I have been lurking for a while !) but I have been photographing the skippers in my field and want to know what sort they are, so thought I would ask you. from your comments on this site I did manage to identify a brown Argus but skippers are still a mystery to me.

Image

Image

Image



Thanks in advance

Re: Oh dear skippers again....

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:36 pm
by Denise
Hi Eris,

Welcome to the site. I too lurked for weeks before taking the plunge!
Where abouts in the country do you live as this could have some bearing on which skipper it is?

Cheers
Denise
p.s. nice photo's!

Re: Oh dear skippers again....

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:50 pm
by Eris
Hi,
I'm in West Sussex,
They mostly hang around a few patches of vetch I have in the field, I saw a couple there last year so went out again to see if there were still there this year and I spotted a dozen or so over the past week. I have got more photos, but I'm not sure if they are all one sort, or different sorts.

Re: Oh dear skippers again....

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:58 pm
by Pete Eeles
I'll stick my neck out and suggest that all 3 are Essex :) ... just don't ask me why :)

Cheers,

- Pete

Re: Oh dear skippers again....

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:02 pm
by Eris
Here is a head shot of one of them if it helps

Image

Re: Oh dear skippers again....

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:12 pm
by Pete Eeles
Not really, I'm afraid. The distinguishing feature is on the undersides of the antennae :(

Cheers,

- Pete

Re: Oh dear skippers again....

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:19 pm
by Eris
Maybe this helps, its a very tatty one but the antenna shows a bit of the underside, I guess I'll just have to lie on the ground and shoot upwards next time.

Image


Thanks Pete.
I'm new to butterfly interests, but they do like my garden, basically coz in estate agent parlance "The garden is maintained in a way that renders it attractive to wildlife".. I get meadow browns breeding on what is laughably called "the lawn!"

Re: Oh dear skippers again....

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:14 pm
by Pete Eeles
I can only dream that, one day, I'd be able to look at that photo and be able to tell you the critter was Small or Essex Skipper. Given me another 20 years or so and I'll be as knowledgeable as Guy - our resident ID expert (but that would just be with regard to butterflies, and this "guy" is multi-talented, I can assure you!).

Cheers,

- Pete

Re: Oh dear skippers again....

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:35 pm
by Padfield
:oops:

I have to say, I find small skipper and Essex skippers very much easier in real life than in photos! As they age they become superficially more similar too, and females especially have quite variable antennae that are difficult to judge from a single angle.

Since these butterflies are in a local field and form sedentary populations, my advice would be to spend time observing them closely and building up an experience base here and in other fields, rather than concentrating on photographs. Points to note are:

Males are easy. The sex brands (the dark line in the middle of the forewing, absent in females) are quite different. In small the brand is long and plunges down across veins near the base of the wing. In Essex it is short and parallel to the cell vein. Thus, while there are still both sexes around, track down some males and establish the presence of at least one of the species.

Although the antennae of Essex skipper are often described as looking as if they have been 'dipped in ink', many individuals look quite different from this, having generally dark antennae that are not well demarcated. The really crucial bit, as Pete said, is just under the tip. In small skipper this area contains a reddish or buff or pale brown patch. In Essex it is sooty all around the tip.

Essex skippers are slightly smaller in general and don't seem to have such size variation. Large, bright individuals are nearly always small skippers - and these occur regularly in some populations.

Essex skippers typically have a more singed, strawy appearance, with dark lines coming in from the edge of the wings. This is not really diagnostic, because both species can have this look, but it does form part of the overall jizz of the species. In fresh specimens the underside of the forewings shows much more contrast in colour between the green/grey apex and the orange in small skippers than in Essex (thanks to Tim Cowles who first pointed this out to me).

Note the grass species in the area. When I lived in Suffolk, small skipper was the common species in areas where Yorkshire fog grew. Essex skipper doesn't take Yorkshire fog, I think, but does eat creeping soft grass (which small skipper also takes). However, in coastal regions, dominated by cocksfoot, Essex skipper was the main or often sole species - I don't think small skipper takes cocksfoot.

In the South of England these are both common species and I think it's worth spending plenty of time becoming thoroughly familiar with them!

Guy


PS - for what it's worth, I'm also inclined to go for Essex for the first three pictures but I wouldn't be embarrassed to find I was wrong. The last two are just at the wrong angle for me to feel any confidence at all!!

Re: Oh dear skippers again....

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:05 am
by Eris
Thanks for your informative reply, I will try to get closer to them and do a study of the antenna tips and find a male with a sex brand. The grasses are very mixed, cocksfoot fescues, bents etc and although there is some Yorkshire fog around the edge of the field there is not that much of it.

Re: Oh dear skippers again....

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:29 am
by Sooty
The Small Skipper vs Essex Skipper ID problem certainly seems to be a recurring theme!

Here in Oz we have some skipper species where the adults can only be distinguished by dissecting the genitalia, something that's hard to do with a camera regardless of whether it's Canon or Nikon, or however good your macro lens is.