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Can anyone help?
Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:21 am
by Sacmac
Just joined as it's been driving me mad trying to ID a butterfly I saw at the weekend and I'm hoping you guys can help. Unfortunately it was gone before I had a chance to take a photo. The closest thing I can find is that it looked very much like a Red Admiral, with the black and white on the edge of the wings, but the part near the body was all red/orange rather than just a band round the dark centre as in pictures I've seen of Red Admirals. If this makes sense to anyone, I'd be grateful for an ID. If it helps, I saw this in my garden in Essex.
Many thanks!
Sheryl
Re: Can anyone help?
Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:37 am
by Padfield
Painted lady is very close to red admiral in general pattern, but with the bases of the wings orange rather than black:
Any chance it was this?
Guy
Re: Can anyone help?
Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:52 pm
by Sacmac
Thanks, Guy. No, that wasn't it. The central bit was a solid unmarked orange/red. I have to say I've never seen one before so I'm mightily curious!! Hope someone has an idea. If I see it again I'll be sure to take a photo.
Re: Can anyone help?
Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:13 pm
by thepostieles
maybe small tortoiseshell sherl?
Re: Can anyone help?
Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:14 pm
by Neil Hulme
Hi Sheryl,
Go to
http://www.butterfly-conservation.org/b ... erfly.html and use the interactive butterfly identifier. Small Tortoiseshell perhaps?
Neil
Re: Can anyone help?
Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:00 pm
by Padfield
You might also try some of the brightly coloured moths, like garden tiger:
http://ukmoths.org.uk/show.php?id=2229
I've no idea how experienced you are so please don't take that as an insult!
Tiger moths are quite frequently mistaken for butterflies.
Guy
Re: Can anyone help?
Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:15 pm
by Sacmac
Thanks everyone. I'm not experienced at all in this field so I'm sure that doesn't help!! I'm more of a bird person.
I've been going through all the moth photos and I'm pretty sure it wasn't a moth in any case. The nearest thing it looked like is a red admiral with that big eye shape going on round the wings, but it was all orange rather than just an orange circle round the black "eye". The tips of the wings were definitely black with white spots, and the pattern more similar to the red admiral rather than the painted lady. It was definitely not a small tortoiseshell. Maybe some sort of a morph (or maybe my eyes need testing - but my partner did see it as well so maybe not!!!). Anyway, I'm glad I saw it, whatever it was, and I do appreciate everyone's input. I'll look out for it and, as I said, if I see it again I'll grab a photo this time
Re: Can anyone help?
Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:21 pm
by Dave McCormick
It could have been a red admiral or Indian Red Admiral?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Red_Admiral
Re: Can anyone help?
Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:37 pm
by Denise
Anything like this?
Cream-spot Tiger Moth.
Denise
Re: Can anyone help?
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:58 pm
by Sacmac
Very close to that, Dave, but with no markings on the orange. Here's a doctored picture of a red admiral which shows how striking the colouring was.
It was very strange to say the least!!
Re: Can anyone help?
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:59 pm
by Sacmac
Sacmac wrote:
Very close to that, Dave, but with no markings on the orange. Here's a doctored picture of a red admiral which shows how striking the colouring was.
It was very strange to say the least!!
Re: Can anyone help?
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:59 pm
by Sacmac
Denise wrote:Anything like this?
Cream-spot Tiger Moth.
Denise
Thanks Denise, but definitely not that.
Re: Can anyone help?
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:05 pm
by Annie
possibly a Monarch, one that's the by-product of a wedding release?
http://www.ukbutterflies.co.uk/species. ... me=Monarch
Re: Can anyone help?
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:14 pm
by Padfield
Your doctored picture makes me think of plain tiger:
Guy
Re: Can anyone help?
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:22 pm
by Annie
Sheryl, you say you're in Essex - are you near South Woodham Ferrers? There's a tropical butterfly house there called Tropical Wings, so maybe the butterfly might have been an escapee like the Plain Tiger that Guy suggested...
also another possible; not a butterfly I know
anything about - a female Danaid Eggfly
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dana ... y_pair.jpg
Re: Can anyone help?
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:32 am
by Sacmac
padfield wrote:Your doctored picture makes me think of plain tiger:
Guy
Thanks Guy, this one is very close to it, apart from the faint black markings in the orange.
Sheryl
Re: Can anyone help?
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:45 am
by Padfield
This is a common pattern in exotic butterflies because it is mimicked by several quite unrelated species (like the 'Danaid' eggfly, mentioned above, which is not a Danaid at all). So that may be as far as we can get without more info! As Annie says, if Tropical Wings is near you they might be able to give you a list of their species.
The plain tiger is an African butterfly that breeds very locally in Spain and France (my picture was from the Canaries). It is highly unlikely to have reached England naturally.
Guy
Re: Can anyone help?
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:55 am
by Annie
padfield wrote:like the 'Danaid' eggfly, mentioned above, which is not a Danaid at all
oops! sorry, only happened upon it when looking for something else - good old Wikipedia!
Re: Can anyone help?
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:56 am
by Sacmac
Annie wrote:Sheryl, you say you're in Essex - are you near South Woodham Ferrers? There's a tropical butterfly house there called Tropical Wings, so maybe the butterfly might have been an escapee like the Plain Tiger that Guy suggested...
also another possible; not a butterfly I know
anything about - a female Danaid Eggfly
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dana ... y_pair.jpg
Thanks Annie, this is absolutely the nearest thing to what we saw so I'm opting for this at the moment! We are about ten miles from South Woodham Ferrers so it's possible what we saw was an escapee. Thanks for all your help
Re: Can anyone help?
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:34 am
by Annie
Sheryl - I would reiterate that I am only the at the bottom rung of absolute beginnership in the world of butterflies, and you would be much wiser looking into Guy's suggestion of the Plain Tiger. I only came upon the Eggfly when I was on Wikipedia looking for something else.
