www.ukbutterflies.co.uk

This thread is here to allow you to cast your votes for the May 2008 competition, see entries at http://www.ukbutterflies.co.uk/phpBB2/v ... =23&t=2052

You need to be registered and logged into the forums, where you'll be able to cast your votes for your three favourites. Once you've voted, that's it!

This poll will run until June 20th.

So ... vote away! and good luck everyone

May 2008 was the last competition I will enter or look at on this forum, as it seems obvious to me that the voting is about as political and rigged as the eurovision song contest, and not about which photo is the best. While I never expected personally to get votes anyway as I don't seem to stand a chance against (and am in awe of) those who can afford DSLR's, I never expected to see the same voting patterns month after month after month regardless of the pictures submitted. This is just not cricket, for want of a better phrase. A competition like this should be fair, light hearted and fun for everyone, not a predictable controversy as it currently is.

I wish the best entries in the June and future competition the best of luck and a genuine win.

If anyone was wondering what happened to my post well I originally sort of agreed, had a bit of a ponder and then realised I couldn't care less so deleted it
Lots of luv.

FlyByWire wrote:... it seems obvious to me that the voting is about as political and rigged as the eurovision song contest, and not about which photo is the best.

Sorry - but I disagree. I always look at the winners and generally agree with the way the voting has gone.

FlyByWire wrote:I never expected to see the same voting patterns month after month after month regardless of the pictures submitted.

I disagree with this too. In my opinion, the same "patterns" are seen because some photographers are, quite simply, better than others. I personally aspire to take photos as good as those that have won.

FlyByWire wrote:A competition like this should be fair, light hearted and fun for everyone, not a predictable controversy as it currently is.

The only controversial post related to the photo comp. has been with regard to image manipulation, not with voting patterns. Yours is the first post along these lines, I believe. Anyone else have a concern?

Cheers,

- Pete

Oh! As a relative noob here, I'd say the voting looks to be about right - there're some great shots and there's little between the top half dozen.

Was pleasantly surprised at votes on mine - there are plenty that are technically better (detailed, sharper, etc) but I'm one who always goes for what I consider to be an interesting comp over detail. Style over substance, if you like! So, thanks!

My only comment is to point to the Annual Competition, where there is no room for controversy, as it is blind......
And it is interesting to note the winners there....
NickB

You're very brave FlybyWire, I'll give you that... but I think you're quite wrong. I too could be bitter as I too have felt on occasion that some of my better photos have been "overlooked", but on reflection my personal attachment to them and how they were created has probably warped my perspective. Sometimes too, photos that I've voted for to win have come nowhere near. This doesn't demonstrate bias, it demonstrates that others might like and look for different things than i do in a winning entry.

I must admit to voting for the same person (or now two or three people) each month... but then Gruditch tends to produce the most consistently creative and technically excellent pictures month in month out. If somebody betters him, they'll get my vote; I'm not biased... but in the spirit of competition, the best pictures should win! Even if the winner won last month!

Regards, Chris

Chris wrote:
I must admit to voting for the same person (or now two or three people) each month...

Regards, Chris

So it MAY make a difference knowing who posted what...even subconsciously...and without meaning to?
N

Personally, I go through the photos at the end of the competition and deliberately don't look at who posted them... only finding out who did so once my final selections are made. I must confess this month, I did think seriously about not voting for Gruditch once I realised he was again top of my list, but couldn't bring myself to do so... How can you possibly not vote for a photo so obviously in the top three?
Keep 'em coming Gruditch (and everyone else!)... One day we'll beat him
The only other way is to somehow prevent the names appearing next to the photos in this particular thread, and then posting the winners at the end (if that could be done). That actually has a certain appeal, but I don't seriously think it will make a huge difference to the names we see up in lights... We all need to get out there and practice

Trev

Trev Sawyer wrote:The only other way is to somehow prevent the names appearing next to the photos in this particular thread, and then posting the winners at the end (if that could be done).

Not without a lot of work, and I have much higher-priority things to sort out first

Cheers,

- Pete

Mike
I think you are wrong.
Before the voting started, I had listed every photograph in my order of preference, but had also written a short critique for it.
The only significant difference to the top ten I selected, and the top ten actually voted for is that my photo was higher in my list!
However, that is just my understandable bias.
I now know that mine suffers from an unpleasant background colour (willow carr), and the antenae are out of focus.
There are many photos entered that are really interesting, and should certainly be on this website for the interest of the subscribers, but are NOT competition entries.
This includes any with fingers in, any with tatty butterflies, and any that are unsharp, improperly exposed, or badly composed.
The standards are so high, and the consistent half dozen top photographers are there month after month, not just because they have DSLRs, but because they know how to use them, and have the eye for composition.
I am afraid that cameras with tiny sensors will never give the shallow depth of field and beautiful out of focus areas that most of the winning pictures have.
Also, and let us not forget this - this is all just a bit of FUN. There are no prizes, it is just a harmless entertainment between friends (both virtual and real).
So - Mike, don't throw your toys out of the pram.
Enter again, and, so what if you don't win?
The (mostly) constructive criticism after the voting has finished MAY help you become a better photographer.
I know I have learned a hell of a lot from my occasional entries!
Roger Harding
p.s. I know Gary (Gruditch) pretty well, and it REALLY HURTS having to vote for him, but he does take some fabulous shots!!

pps
I shall publish my critiques after the voting has finished. It may not win me any friends, but I hope will help some to become better competition entrants.

Anonymity would certainly go a long way to overcoming the objections. Entries simply listed as "A", "B", "Z", "AA" etc with a random allocation, ie the same person doesn't always get the same code letter.

Jack

As I thought I would loose votes because I won the last comp, I am in favour of anonymous entry's. But as we have had 11 different winners in the 13 competitions so far, I think it is unnecessary and unfair on Pete, who must some times wonder why he bothers. I have sent a Private message to Flybywire to confirm if his grievances is with me, but as I have not received a replay, I can only assume it is. All I can say to him is you've made my day, a year ago, I would never of envisioned myself winning one of these comps, let alone have someone moaning that I keep winning. And thanks for the kind comments guys.

Gruditch

Pete Eeles wrote:

Trev Sawyer wrote:The only other way is to somehow prevent the names appearing next to the photos in this particular thread, and then posting the winners at the end (if that could be done).

Not without a lot of work, and I have much higher-priority things to sort out first

Cheers,

- Pete

If forum members decide they do want an anonymous competition I can see a relatively simple way of doing it, without imposing a significant burden on Pete.

This would be to open a dummy account, called 'Photocomp' or something similar, with a password that changed each month (to prevent easy abuse by spammers). The dummy account would be moderated posts only. Each photo submmitted to it would be signed with the real username, which the moderator would replace with a number and note the username. I would have no objection to doing that.

The downside would be that you couldn't edit entries - so they would all have to be submitted in a certain time-frame at the end of the month.

This is just a thought. To be honest, I don't see a pressing need for it, but if it would help remove a perception of bias I wouldn't mind helping to administrate it.

Guy

On a quite different topic, does anyone else find that many pictures are clipped on the right-hand side? I can't believe that so many people take pictures with only half a butterfly in. Is there a maximum pixel width for pictures posted in the new way?

Guy

Guys (and girls )...
My suggestion was really just a passing thought... I really don't think it is worth any real effort at all to change things and suspect the vast majority of us would be more than happy to continue the way we are. I think we are all big and ugly enough to make our own minds up about what we think represents a winning photograph, regardless of who sent in the image. As others have said, we may be able to glean some little gems of information which turn a 'nice' photo into a special one from the monthly competition (even if we can't actually put our finger on it). This is exactly why I look at, vote for, or occasionally post up an image.

Trev

padfield wrote:On a quite different topic, does anyone else find that many pictures are clipped on the right-hand side? ... Guy

I have the same problem, Guy. The June competition entries by Chris and Trev Sawyer are noticeably affected in this way. But when I view these pictures on my computer at work, I can see the whole image!

I've played around with the display settings on my home computer, but it's made no difference to the problem.

Any suggestions anyone?

Bryan

Hmmm. I can't see it. Some photos have scroll bars, but that's it.

Could someone please email me a screenshot and I'll look into it? Thanks. pete@ukbutterflies.co.uk

Or post it here so that we can agree that this is the same problem!

Cheers,

- Pete

I think it's a shame that one of our members has become upset. I know Mike fairly well and can make some guesses as to what he might be getting cross about.

Pictures from DSLRs are without doubt in a class of their own in terms of resolution, colour, lack of chromatic aberration, etc. It is inevitable that the majority will subconsciously or otherwise, consider the DSLR pictures to be the best being overwhelmed by their technical excellence. So I suspect that DSLR users will only rarely vote for a photo from a compact. Meanwhile, compact users have no such "type loyalty" as many aspire to owning a DSLR (but I doubt very much that DSLR users ever contemplate "trading down")

I think Mike is trying to make the point that there is an almost inevitable "Eurovision" voting bias, ie DSLR users only vote for their own kind. Mike isn't throwing his toys out the pram simply because he never wins. No, I suspect he is making the point that only certain types of photo (DSLR) can EVER win and that doesn't include the contributions from himself.

However, many people are stuck with compacts, be it by reasons of cost or because of physical limitations (weight, etc of the equipment). In my own case for example, I have an arthritic spine and amongst other problems, have a permanently stiff neck. I cannot contort myself so am obliged to use a compact with a moveable screen. I don't like all this PC nonsense that we must have a quota of this that and the other, so I certainly wouldn't want a photo comp that effectively gives those with limitations special benefits. But it has to be appreciated that not all are able to use DSLRs.

When I cast my vote, I try to look past the technical excellence of the DSLR images and consider the composition, imagination - even humour - of the entries. I certainly do vote for DSLR photos on occasions but equally I might vote for the technically less-perfect photo if it shows imagination, flair.

Some while ago, I suggested that as a idea to produce a more level playing field, there could be a maximum image size (smaller than at present). This coupled with anonymity would keep me happy and might bring Mike back into the fold.

Jack Harrison

No, I suspect he is making the point that only certain types of photo (DSLR) can EVER win and that doesn't include the contributions from himself.

Jack
I think you have proven that this statement is false.
Sfter all, your entry, taken with non-DSLR (Canon S3), is presently lying equal 2nd.
That is pretty close to winning in my book!
Roger