Page 1 of 2

Still an exceptionally early year

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:58 pm
by Padfield
I wrote a post at the beginning of March observing that this was an extremely early year here - apparently even earlier than last year.

Since then it has snowed almost continuously, and frequently down to valley level, with cloud and rain (even thunder storms recently) in between. There have been hardly any sunny days at all. But it was sunny today and things STILL seemed to be emerging well ahead of schedule. I saw my earliest ever de Prunner's ringlet - a whole month earlier than last year - and my second earliest chequered blues - just a day later than last year, which was my record for that species. I got just awful, long distance shots of both, for proof of identity. Here is the first of two chequered blues I saw:

Image

And this is the de Prunner's ringlet, hugely cropped and resized upwards - the white pupils have become lines because of handshake or wing movement:

Image

By contrast, all the hibernators seemed to have died off - I saw just three small tortoiseshells (as compared to 45 one day in February) and one large tortoiseshell. Butterflies in general were not numerous and things that had begun emerging last weekend seemed to have made little progress since.

In short, things seem to be emerging early on isolated warm days and dying off in the intervening cold weeks. I hope very much the weather pattern changes.

Guy

Re: Still an exceptionally early year

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:33 pm
by Paul
Doesn't seem to be a good set of circumstances does it... I still have only seen one butterfly in my garden this year... very late for here. Maybe better that way than emerging into frozen wastes two days later!
By the way.. envy the sightings you are getting :mrgreen:

Re: Still an exceptionally early year

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:03 pm
by Padfield
Don't despair! I think your tardy insects are probably wiser than their precocious Swiss cousins!

We are forecast bad weather as from tonight, and snow down to 800m during next week. The forecast only goes as far as Friday but it is still heavily overcast then. We badly need some prolonged fine weather so things can get down to the serious business of breeding...

Guy

PS - I love your large blue pic in the 'favourite species' post. I live in the large blue heartlands, as you know, and I have never got a picture this good!

Re: Still an exceptionally early year

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:47 am
by Sylvie_h
Hi
I hope the weather gets better. I will be in the Alps (French side - Haute Savoie) second week of May to visit family. I was hoping to see different species in May ( I always go there end of June or beg. July) but I hope the weather (especially snow falls) will not affect or delay the butterfly emergence.
Here in Wales, the spring seems to come late this year. The salandines in my garden have just flowered (they flowered earlier last year) and my small sallow has not shown any flowers yet either... Still I have seen bumble bees searching around my garden, spring is definitively on its way but we need warmer temperatures.
Sylvie

Re: Still an exceptionally early year

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:50 pm
by Padfield
What altitude will you be staying at, Sylvie? This is at least as crucial a factor as date in determining what you might see. The second week in May is obviously better at lower altitudes - the true Alpine stuff doesn't really get moving much before July.

I'd be interested to read what you've seen in previous years, at the end of June and in August.

Guy

Re: Still an exceptionally early year

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:13 am
by Sylvie_h
Hi Guy,

Fortunately I will be staying at a relatively low altitude (about 600m).
I will compile a list of butterflies of the region which I have seen and photographed in June, July time over the last 3 years. Haute-Savoie is excellent for butterflies at this time of year especially at higher altitudes (2000m).
Sylvie

Re: Still an exceptionally early year

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:24 pm
by Padfield
I must visit the Haute Savoie!

That is one of the release locations for Lammergeiers in the ongoing (successful) project to reintroduce these to the Alps. The first Lammergeier I saw near me in Switzerland turned out to be an individual called Gilbert, who hailed from there (I photographed him and sent the pictures to the experts - they identified him from the diagnostic marks they paint onto the wings of all releases).

I look forward to your records, from this year and previous June/July visits (I don't know why I thought you said August!). My blog at http://www.guypadfield.com/butterflyyear.html will give you an idea of how the season is progressing in this part of the world. Most May records marked 'Valais' will be from around 600m.

Guy

Re: Still an exceptionally early year

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:57 am
by Sylvie_h
Hi Guy,

I will work on my list over the week end and will post it sometimes next week. Thank you very much for sending the link for butterflies to be found at 600m and under. It will be a good source for me and for others as well. If you have never been to Haute-Savoie, then I would recommend that you go there asap!! This is a marvellous place for everything in terms of nature! You should avoid August as it can be very busy with tourists and it can be rainy as well but July and June prove to be fine although there can be nasty storms but they clear very quickly.

I saw the Lammergeiers on 2 occasions in Haute-Savoie, once at 'Col des Aravis' and also at ' Brêche du Dérochoir' (fantastic walk with 1200m going up track, but when you arrive on top the view is fantastic, you get a whole panorama of the Mont Blanc with Chamonix at the bottom and a sheer 600m drop at your feet, absolutely gorgeous!!) and you will see the Lammergeiers up there (another treat after a hard steep walk). I believe all Lammergeiers have been re-introduced in Haute-Savoie but they seem to be doing very well.

Sylvie

Re: Still an exceptionally early year

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:14 pm
by Sylvie_h
Hi Guy,
I've compiled a list for butterflies from Haute-Savoie over the week end. Unfortunately, I have not been very good at recording the exact dates but the list below is from the last 3 years and is a record of butterflies I have photographed in June and early July at all altitudes:
Red Admiral / white admiral
Apollo
Brown argus/ large blue / common blue / small blue
Wall brown / Arran brown / meadow brown
Berger's clouded yellow / mountain clouded yellow / clouded yellow
Comma
Coppers: sooty /purple edged /purple shot /large / scarce
Lesser purple emperor
Duke of burgundy
Fiery clearwing / humming bird hawkmoth
Fritillaries : marsh / heath / niobe fritillary / pearl boardered / spotted / titania's / glanville / high brown / dark green/ violet / silver washed
Grayling
Heath: small / perly
Hairstreaks: blue-spot / green / Ilex / white letter
Orange tips
Painted lady / peacock
Almond eyed ringlet
Skippers: large / small/ grizzled / red-underwing /
Swallowtail and scarce swallowtail
Tortoishells : large / small
Wood white and black veined white

I don't know what will be around in May but reading your list Guy, it looks like there is quite a lot of butterflies around in this part of the world at this time of year. I am hoping to see the large coppers again (the one I photographed was in very bad condition).
Sylvie

Re: Still an exceptionally early year

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:42 pm
by Padfield
Thanks for that, Sylvie!

It's a very interesting list. I'm most excited by the large coppers too - this is a species I haven't seen since 1994 (in Hungary), though I'm planning to visit a friend who has them locally in France this summer. In Switzerland they only fly in the extreme west and in the Jura.

Guy

Re: Still an exceptionally early year

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:48 pm
by Sylvie_h
Hi Guy,

There is a site where you can see large coppers but I am very reluctant to reveal its location on the web as I know there are unscrupulous collectors out there who would be eager to get this information. I have visited this site for the last 3 years and I have seen large coppers the first 2 years -they were all on their last legs as it was quite late in the season. I did not see them last year.This site covers also species like dusky and scarce large blue (info from a friend of mine) but I have never seen them. I will re-visit this site in May to check what is there.
Sylvie

Re: Still an exceptionally early year

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:24 pm
by Padfield
I wouldn't dream of asking you to reveal a site, either on the web or privately! I mostly meant I was excited for you, rather than excited for me to scrounge the info off you!! In the Alps and neighbouring mountains, most good sites are not nature reserves of any kind and have no protection or consistent monitoring. In Switzerland, at least, sites are only shared among intimate circles of friends who do their hobby (or job, in some cases) together.

Scarce and dusky large blues are often bedfellows, though I know of a couple of sites where only dusky flies - both of them sites away from water. These are fascinating butterflies to get to know but it is indeed hard to judge the flight time and this varies enormously from colony to colony. The second week of July works at my favourite site. For future years (you will definitely be too early this year), note that dusky large blues stick to the heads of sangquisorbe plants like flies to dung and almost never land on anything else. Thus, you can seek out this butterfly even in overcast conditions by scanning all the sanguisorbe with binoculars. Dusky large blues almost never open their wings when on a sanguisorbe head. Scarce large blues are more eclectic in their choice of resting place/nectaring place and also frequently rest with their wings open.

I look forward to your 2008 report!

Guy

Re: Still an exceptionally early year

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:40 pm
by Sylvie_h
Hi Guy,

Thank you very much for the tips on how to find dusky / scarce large blues. I never thought of finding them like this, using binoculars is a good idea too - have some which are suited for butterfly watching.
I will write a report on butterflies to be seen in May in Haute-Savoie although this year may be poor because of the weather, let's hope it gets warmer in the next couple of weeks for the butterfly emergence!!
Sylvie

Re: Still an exceptionally early year

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:27 pm
by Sylvie_h
I have finally managed to identify my butterflies pictures taken in Hte-Savoie during May (2nd week) last year. Time is really flying!!
The theme 'still an exceptionally early year' is surely not relevant anymore considering the type of weather we have here in the UK, even colder weather in Continental Europe and I wonder what kind of spring we will have this year!! Still I won't complain as it is better to have sunny and cold weather than damp and not so cold weather!
Anyway, here is the list of the butterflies I have identified from my photos. I was visiting family but managed to escape for a couple of days to look for butterflies and orchids.
Some of these butterflies were seen around Annecy and some others between Annecy and Geneva. I stayed at low altitude as per Guy's recommendation and the highlights were Idas and Reverdin's blue which were new species for me!!
- Common blue ( Polyommatus icarus)
- Glandville fritillary (Melitaea cinxia)
- Idas Blue (Plejebus idas)
- Reverdin's Blue (Plebejus argyrognomon)
- Mazarine Blue (Lyaniris semiargus)
- Green Hairstreak (Callophrys rubi)
- Berger's clouded Yellow (Colias alfacariensis)
- Amanda's Blue (Agrodiaetus amanda)
- Chequered Skipper (Carterocephalus palaemon)
- Heath Fritillary (Mellicta athalia)
- Wall Brown (Lasiommata megera)
- Swallowtail (Papilio machaon)
- Orange tip (Anthocaris cardamines)
- Clouded Yellow (Colias crocea)
- Wood White (Leptidea sinapis)
I wish you all a very happy butterflying New Year!!
Sylvie

Re: Still an exceptionally early year

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:04 pm
by Padfield
You're right, Sylvie - 2008 got rather behind itself after a while, despite its precocious start. In fact, although I had a great year myself, because of a few good trips and some luck, it was on the whole a poor year for butterflies.

I also got my first Reverdin's blues in 2008 - what a great butterfly! One thing that struck me was how easy they were to identify. I had them first in Switzerland, at a site near Geneva, then in much greater numbers in France, and there was never any conceivable doubt about them.

Your Amanda's blue sighting was early, I think. I don't see much of this species except on my trips to Spain, where it is very common in the Pyrenees. It does fly in the Swiss Alps but I have certainly never seen it as early as the beginning of May.

And a happy new year to you, with all my best wishes for a fantastic butterfly season, filled with life ticks and special moments,

Guy

Re: Still an exceptionally early year

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:57 pm
by Roger Gibbons
Reverdin’s Blue seemed (to me, at least) to be one of those species that once you’ve seen one, you start to see them everywhere. It seems to be widespread in eastern central France and I have seen them as far south as Digne-les-Bains. The male upperside is a beautiful deep blue, which I have never really captured in a photo.

The books seem to go to some lengths to suggest that they might be confused with Idas Blue, but like Guy I was 100% certain when I saw my first one some ten years ago and was then a complete novice at ID.

Sylvie, your Amanda’s Blue seems exceptionally early to me. I see them in quite a few places at altitude in SE France but I have a local (Var) site at lower altitude of around 400m where I see them each year and my earliest sighting was 19 May, a pristine male. For anyone who is not familiar with the effect of latitude and altitude on the flight period of a particular species, the further south and the lower the altitude means an earlier emergence. Lafranchis gives the flight period in France as (end-May) June to mid-August, but in this Var location it is just about finished by the end of May. Local populations vary greatly within the flight periods stated in the books, even country-specific books like Lafranchis’.

I suspect my location is probably the earliest-emerging for this species, and would wonder about Amanda’s Blue in mid-May in Savoie, even at 600m. No chance it could have been an Iolas Blue, as they are comparable in size? They are out earlier and occur in Savoie, according to Lafranchis. If it was Iolas, that would definitely be a result!

Re: Still an exceptionally early year

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:11 pm
by Padfield
There's a thought!

I saw my first iolas of 2008 on 24th May, having failed to find them on 11th May. But in 2007 they were flying on 29th April. Iolas is very much dependent on the state of the bladder senna - it coincides its emergence with the first bladders - and that, in turn depends on many local things, like when the last snow disappeared &c. It is also quite a low density butterfly so I could have missed earlier emergers in 2008.

So, is amandus a definite, Sylvie, or is there an outside chance you had the BIG one?

Guy

Re: Still an exceptionally early year

Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:59 am
by Sylvie_h
Hi Roger and Guy,

Thank you for mentionning Iolas because when I was in the process of identifying this butterfly, I hesitated between Iolas and Amanda's blue. For some obscure reasons which I can not remember, I decided that it was Amanda's. However, as I am not a butterfly specialist, I will have a look at it again and re-confirm. I have doubts now and I could be completely wrong. FYI, the book I use for identification is the Collins Guide to the Butterflies of Britain and Europe by Tolman and Lewington.
Sylvie

Re: Still an exceptionally early year

Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:04 am
by Padfield
Hi Sylvie,

Post a photo if you wish - now my curiosity is piqued I'd love to have a look!

Guy

Re: Still an exceptionally early year

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:29 am
by Roger Gibbons
If it were a large-ish blue, it maybe Escher’s, as the undersides are not too dissimilar, but it would be rather too early for Escher’s. If based on an upperside (male) view, Damon Blue is not dissimilar in that they both have darker bands at the forewing margins, but Damon is much smaller and mid-May would be way too early. My curiosity has been stirred, too, and I’d love to see a photo.

If it does transpire that it’s Iolas, you might find people being very nice to you in the hope if being told the location. I could be one of them.

I plan to be in the Savoie region in mid-July for a week of so. If anyone is going to be there at that time or knows of any good locations to visit, please get in touch.